S1 E6 Shit2TalkAbout Life After Divorce with Jasmine Rice
Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! Jenn Junod
All right, Jasmine. Thanks for joining. Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About about, please introduce yourself. And what shit do you want to talk about?
Jasmine Rice
Thank you so much for having me here today. And I think the shit that I want to talk about is divorce and I think it's something that a lot of people don't really talk about.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah. You know my eyes are darting. Yeah, I don't want to talk about it. I don't like talking about. I don't like admitting that I'm divorced, which is kind of crazy because I am 33 now and I was married at the age of 20 divorced at 22. So it was definitely oh goodness how many years ago, 11 years ago I can count now. So most people in my life other than like my closest friends and family don't even realize it. And it's crazy to me that people question.
Well, do I even care about marriage and those type of things? And I'm so I'm stoked to like deep dive into that and I know that you deal a lot with the shame behind it. Absolutely. Before we dive in on the divorce part because that is gonna be a big chunk of it. I am curious. Did you like come from a background that you felt shamed for anything or like you were shamed for a lot of stuff?
Jasmine Rice
I was raised by my, primarily my dad, my parents were divorced when I was really young and so there was a lot of instability growing up for me and I had a lot of shame around. Honestly, my mom, my mom left when I was little and I didn't have a mom around. So growing up without that, I was kind of embarrassed when my friends would talk about doing things with their mom and I didn't have a mom around for that.
So that led to a lot of things early on in my childhood with abandonment issues and I was bullied when I was young. So a lot of things happened when I was little, but I think it led me to where I am ultimately today.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And that's definitely relatable. I would, I also this, this might sound weird. My mom was never into makeup and I was kind of mad about that because I was like, I never got to learn how to do it. Luckily we have youtube now and and your makeup looks wonderful. And I've heard that from other people where their moms aren't around or they don't have siblings or somebody that helps teach them that. So I just wanted to call out your makeup looks great.
Jasmine Rice
Thank you so much random but well, I have an older sister who she honestly didn't help me with the makeup. So it took me a long time. I definitely went to wearing a little too much makeup when I was around 13 and balance it out. So I think I have a good balance now. But thank you.
Jenn Junod
Nice, nice. So, before we get into like the whole divorce, I do, at least in my personal opinion, there were a lot of, a lot of red flags for myself beforehand and a lot that really led into why I got married when I was 20 that, you know, Heins iIn 2020 I was 20. That was fun. Was, you know, I wish I listened to myself and trusted myself enough to get myself out of there. What was it like before you got married?
Jasmine Rice
Well, he was my high school sweetheart and so it was really all I knew I grew up with him. And when I look back now, obviously I see things that I don't want to necessarily say were red flags. But for myself, coming from a broken home, there was stability with him and he was really all I knew and we didn't get married until I was 25. But, and so we were together for quite a while before we got married.
But again, he was my high school sweetheart. He was just everything that I knew I grew up with this person from the time that I was 15. And then it just seemed like that was the next thing that you did. You got married? So, I came from a very small town in Kansas and many of my friends married their high school sweethearts and many of them are divorced as well.
Jenn Junod
All right. And I, I'm curious about that. I heard this a lot getting married at 20 that you always at least want to wait till the age of 25 when your brain is more fully developed. And a lot of like, the personality traits are a bit more finalized. Is that something that you guys consider?
Jasmine Rice
No, I actually wanted to get married a lot younger. I was ready to get married pretty much when I graduated. It was just in my mind that's what we were going to do. So why wait, why not get married? And he did want to wait until we graduated college and had some stability with our careers at that time. But, yeah, you, you're absolutely correct. Our brains aren't fully developed until we're 24.
But I think because I was with him from the time I was so young, I really never even knew who I was. It was, he was always a part of me. And so it just, it just happened, you know, we just kind of got married and I never had that time by myself, time alone to figure out who I was. So, he was always a part of me. We were, like, basically connected at the hip.
Jenn Junod
Oh, damn. All right. Yeah. And I guess I'm, I'm asking all of these because I know for myself it was a completely different situation which I'll get into later. But I think that so many people are like, well, it's just because he was a bad guy. And I know for at least with my marriage, the dude wasn't a bad guy.
We were just a horrible fit and the reasons I got married were very, very wrong. So in the wedding aspect and I, I have heard this before and I don't know if it has any, you know, validity to it.
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
But do you, do you, have you seen in your coaching or have you had this experience where people care so much about the wedding that they lose sight of why they're getting married and just to kind of put on a show, I would definitely say that's true when you're getting married younger, the older you get, I think you view it a little bit differently.
Jasmine Rice
And it also does depend on your, your background and how you were raised and whether marriage is important in just your culture or again, just growing up, is that what you have always aspired to be married? And I think it does depend on the age though, the older you are when you get married, I think you're viewing it a little bit more from, from your heart rather than just what everybody else is expecting. The, the big wedding and you're forgetting all of those reasons why you're wanting to commit yourself to that person.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I could, I could definitely see that, in the fact of I got, when I was married I, we borrowed a lot of money to be able to figure out how to put the best wedding we could because of all for show. And then now, the partner I'm with now he is the most amazing man that I have ever the best relationship I've ever been in. And I'm, I'm so grateful for that and we've been together for four years now, which is all together longer than my marriage lasted.
Like, you know, pre input, like all of it together the entire relationship and with him, I'm just like, yeah, we can go to the courthouse, like I'm down, I don't care. I was like, one day I'm getting the dress I want and we're getting a photographer and we're gonna go take photos. But, you know, I'm not, I don't care. And that's, I can see that because, you know, 20 to 33 that is quite a bit of an age difference. What kind of wedding did you have?
Jasmine Rice
We actually had a beautiful wedding, my wedding day. Still to this day. Was one of my happiest days. And I still, even though I'm divorced, I can still look at that and, and see that it was what we wanted. We got married outside in Colorado in the mountains overlooking this beautiful lake. it was small, it was a small intimate wedding. But again, I did want to make sure that I had the dress and I do notice when I look back that I started focusing a lot on making sure that other people were
enjoying the day forgetting that it was my day. And I think now I'm kind of along the same lines of you. If I get married again and it's at the courthouse, then, you know, I'm ok with that. I think that happens a lot with second, it's that you, you've already gone through that once and I've seen other second marriages that are big and they're beautiful as well.
But I think something can shift for people that it's just more about the two of you versus having to put on a big party and a big show for other people. But yeah, I loved my wedding day. It was a very beautiful day and a day that I'll always be glad that I had.
Jenn Junod
Awesome. And I, I think that, I, I wanna wrap, like return to that later on because learning about your experience and, you know, going forward and then to your wedding and where you are now, I know that I've personally been through a lot of shit where there's a good memory based in it yet. I'm so, I've been so angry about it that, that good memory is spoiled and yes, now I'm, you know, perspective is everything and, you know, time away from it.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that experience was actually pretty legit, even though it had a lot of bad memories around it. I would really like to tie back into that, but I'm curious after you tell us next step. So you're married now? How long were you married?
Jasmine Rice
I, well, I'm not married now currently.
Jenn Junod
yeah, you got married. I'm saying like you got married at that point, we had the wedding, we got the wedding. Now we're married.
Jasmine Rice
So we were married for 14 years. So we were together a total of 23 years and we were married for 14 years.
Jenn Junod
And did you have kids?
Jasmine Rice
We didn't. And that's, it's something that I always thought we would do. I think he did as well. It was, I think waiting for when the time was going to be right. I wanted them immediately, like right away as soon as we got married, I had it all planned out. I was gonna have my first kid by the time I was 27 and my second kid, by the time I was 29. And it, it didn't happen. we, we worked a lot. He worked a lot and I got to a point where I wanted to make sure he was going to be around to, you know, help
give the babies a bath or have dinner. And it just never happened. His work became his life and I didn't want to be a single parent. And so that was an argument actually, we had quite often was he was ready to have kids and I wanted him to be able to have more of a work life balance before we brought kids into the situation. And so never happened for us.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I, I think that's always hard when we have those dreams and journeys that we see for ourselves. And we don't, it doesn't always happen as planned yet. I know at least in my experience like it doesn't always happen as planned, but it a lot of times will happen better than expected. But what, so 14 years together, that's a lot 23 in total.
Like where I don't, I don't necessarily wanna say what went wrong because it's not always, at least from what I've seen, it's not always a what went wrong. It, it can be you grew apart or it could be, you know, so many different factors. And so where did we go from 25 to 14 years later?
Jasmine Rice
That took me a while to really figure that out because there were certain things that definitely led to the divorce in the end specific things. However, when I was able to start healing and looking back the, the separation really started happening about five or six years prior to the divorce, we were, we really were growing apart. It was we created these separate lives for ourselves.
So he was working all of the time and then I was doing my own thing and we stopped sleeping in the same bed together and I would do things with my friends. We wouldn't even just go shopping to the grocery store together. We just had, we were almost like roommates at one point. but again, it was, I didn't see that at the time when I was in it. I thought, you know, this is my person and this is just what happens with marriage.
You know, you ebb and flow and we were best friends, but we were arguing, arguing more and there were things that I didn't see because I was in it. And after the divorce happened, when I started looking back, I realized it really began years before we signed those divorce papers, got it.
Jenn Junod
And now, you know, you go through the divorce and this is, I know I'm putting a very simplified version of everything that's going on. So, you know, quick life recap because an hour to hour and a half isn't a long time for a lifetime of memories. How, what happened when you got divorced? Who filed? Like what, what was that experience.
Jasmine Rice
Well, this is the, the first podcast I'm gonna come out and say all of this. But, there was infidelity, on both sides. And, I, had mentioned that, you know, he worked a lot. We were having very, very separate. I was very, very lonely and, something I never, ever, ever thought I would do. I was very disappointed in myself. I came clean and I told him that I had an affair and I didn't know at the time that the same thing was happening on his end.
And when I found out about it, that was really when everything exploded. We didn't call it quits though. We went to an infidelity conference. We were trying to work on things together to see if we were going to be able to make it work and in the end I filed, but I changed my mind and he decided that he wanted to move forward with the divorce.
Jenn Junod
Oh, damn. And thank you for sharing. That is definitely scary to admit, especially with the stigma behind it. I, I do want to ask though because it is something that a lot of relationships are looking more into is like having more open relationships or something like that. Is that something you guys talked about or was even on the table?
Jasmine Rice
We, we did. Yes. OK. We did talk about that and we discussed that even with the, the counselor that we went to, after we, were both made aware of, of what happened in our marriage and ultimately decided that it was just not something that was going to work for us because, the, what was the point? Really? Was there love there anymore? Was there going to be trust? Was there going to be jealousy issues? And so, we decided that was not something for us.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And it's definitely not everybody's cup of tea. I don't, I definitely don't want to shame anybody, in either direction because some people that's like the best thing ever, other people, like, I couldn't imagine it from my relationship. But, you know, I know a couple of people in my world that it's the best thing that ever happened to them as, singles or to them as relationships and it's, it's all different cups of tea.
Jasmine Rice
Yeah, I agree. I have friends that have open relationships and poly amorous and it, it works in their lives and, when we had discussed it, it was just, I think there was just too much hurt, there was too much damage already done at that point. And, even though it was very, very hard and very challenging that divorce was going to be the best route for us.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And you, you mentioned it. So you let me know if I'm digging too deep on this one. what caused you to UN file if UN file is a word.
Jasmine Rice
And I, I just told him that I thought we should go ahead and stay separated because we were living separate at that time. But take a break basically to see if we could both work on ourselves and then come back together. I, I don't think I knew how to live without him. He had been in my life since I was again 15 years old for so long. The I thought of him not being there.
I started having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and it was like I just didn't know how to live without him. So I thought if there was this glimmer of hope that we could go work on ourselves, we would be able to reconcile at some point and he told me that it was time we just both go work on ourselves but not be married.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, that that's rough. And how, how long did from the point of opening up to each other and letting each other know what happened to counseling to him filing? How, how long were you guys in that? Like in between?
Jasmine Rice
It happened pretty quickly. So we filed in May and the divorce was final by September. So it all happened very fast.
Jenn Junod
That part happened fast. What about before that when you guys were working on stuff? How long did you guys work on stuff?
Jasmine Rice
So everything came to fruition. Really? in February. So from February until May and yeah, it was all, you know, very, again, it was very, very quick.
Jenn Junod
Definitely sounds like a whirlwind. And I, I really appreciate you going through all this because I know like the, the stigma behind it and the shame so many of us have felt through it. And I'm, I really appreciate you digging deep on that because I mean, that's a why we're talking about that on the, I have this podcast, you know, when we have guests like that, but it's also, it's terrifying digging that deep sometimes and the vulnerability hangover.
I do definitely think that a lot of our listeners are gonna relate and also being able to hear the steps you took to rebuild because I am curious, what, how was your dad or the rest of your family or your friends reacting? What were their feelings during your marriage? Because I know that my family was like, don't get married, divorce him from the beginning. They were like against him. And I'm curious how your friends and family felt about it.
Jasmine Rice
Everyone loved him when we got married. I mean, it was, he just fits so perfectly into our family and his, I loved his family. I still love his family. And when it was a very shocking for everyone to find out that we were going to be getting divorced and what had happened. There, there was a lot that, that people were not processing. No one really could believe that it was coming to an end.
I felt very alone. Honestly, I felt like I did not have support from friends or family. I had friends saying, well, he's a piece of shit, get divorced and then I had, you know, family saying no, you should work on it. And, don't think people really knew how to respond. You know, when, when there's a death, people usually come out of the woodworks and they want to be there and support you and divorce is just so messy.
People really aren't sure what to do. So, a lot of the time they just kind of stay clear and I was experiencing that from my friends, my family and not really, I felt very alone. I wasn't getting a lot of support that I needed really from anybody.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, that is into your, analogy to death. I've, I've heard of it being where everybody comes out of the woodworks to support you maybe in the first, like three months and then everyone disappears when you really need them the most through all the, the first, without your human or without that human. how, first off, like, how would you have wanted someone to support you through that?
Jasmine Rice
Honestly? To listen. That's really, I think what I needed was not someone giving me their advice on what I should be doing because even if they had gone through a divorce, their situation was very, very different than mine. And I didn't want have to have someone just giving me their opinion of what I needed. I wanted someone just to listen really is what I needed or just to sit there while I cried and let me just cry.
And some people couldn't handle that part of it too. Seeing me cry was just too hard. My, my dad, I love him but he just, he didn't like seeing me cry. He would say stop crying. It's, you know, it's going to be for the best and keep your chin up, you know, and I just wanted sometimes people just to, you know, listen to me maybe vent and also just to be there when I cry and not say anything,
Jenn Junod
I think as being the other person on that, that is really hard to just not give feedback like, well, hey, let me help solve the problem because this is why I'm your friend is to be there for you and help you fix this and to just listen and to just hear you people that are not want to support you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then I know I, I went through a self development retreat and a few years ago and, and the Matthew Hussey retreat.
I'm not sure if you've ever heard of Matthew Hussey. really good online dating coach that does like, a bunch of youtube videos, but it's good for like social skills in general. But I went to like five day retreat and one of the first things, it was like 200 women. And one of the first things that during the course that we had to learn is don't comfort someone next to you if they're crying, if whatever they're processing, do not comfort them.
And it's like, that's our instinct is to go, hey, please, please. We just want to cheer you up. We just want to be there for you. We just want to make you happy. And that's like, I don't know if that's like society has taught us that or just human instinct. But to let someone just to cry and be there and be in the same room is, is such a powerful way to support other people no matter what they're going through.
I know one of my best friends has called me because they all live in different states. It doesn't help like move so much. So they'll call me and they'll just be like, yo, I need you to listen and I can't make out any words on what they're saying, but it's been there for them and that's really powerful that you can acknowledge that. That's what you needed. How did you oh Go ahead.
Jasmine Rice
I was gonna say it took me a little bit of time to realize what that was. But I, I knew after a couple of months of people giving me their opinions that that's really what would have been supportive. And at that point, they just really started to pull back.
Jenn Junod
There's a doggo. What's your dog's name?
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
Bailey Bailey for everybody?
Jenn Junod
Like that's listening on the podcast instead of on the youtube. She has a doggo and if you want to see what everybody looks like, you can check out the youtube as well. Thank you for the Bailey interruption. I love the doggo. How, so you're getting opinions from everyone else and you're all alone like not gonna like I don't even know how the fuck do you get out of that? Like that? That is easily a downward spiral.
Jasmine Rice
It was dark. I had a really, really dark time. The first three months of my divorce were bad. I was drinking way too much because I wanted to numb the pain and I don't even know how I had tears left to cry. There was just a dark hole that I didn't know how to get out of. I I had my aha moment really one night when I went to take a bath, wine passed out in the bathtub, woke up choking on water, pulled myself out and passed out again on the floor, naked and wet and woke up and realized that someone had
to change. You know, I was still sad and but I didn't want that to be my life anymore. I needed to do something. I didn't know what in that moment, but it was just this aha moment for me that I if, if other people weren't gonna pick up the phone or text me back because they were pulling back, then I needed to figure out how to do this myself. It was up to me.
Jenn Junod
And at that point, I definitely believe in when you set an intention, things just kind of happen. Not that you mean to, but like when, because our energies, at least to me, this may sound like a little too frou frou or woo woo or anything like that. But when we set a goal or an intention, the world kind of like helps us do that. So what, how did that show up for you? You made that intention and what happened? Like, what's next?
Jasmine Rice
Well, I was expecting immediately that I was going to be able to have everything figured out which did not happen. So that's when I started just to immerse myself in everything. I'm like, well, I'm gonna try a ton of different shit and let's see what sticks. So it was, you know, reading self help books and listening to blogs and podcasts and trying new things.
And I definitely had, you know, I would take a couple steps forward and a couple of steps back and I would have another bad day and I would cry because I was still going through the grieving process, but I was deterred to not give up I had been down that road before I had attempted suicide when I was 13 after being bullied. And those thoughts were coming back and I, I just kept pushing him away.
I I didn't want that to be my life. I wanted to keep moving forward. So I just, I was trying so many different things and that's actually that my book that I just wrote is Creating your own life to me. Thank you. It's creating your own life recipe. Getting, trying different things, trying different ingredients that, you know, you want to work with.
And that's what I started doing. I just was trying a lot of different things to see what was going to work. I'm, I'm a very determined person and so I didn't want to just sit there and expect that my life was going to change. I wanted to try all of these different things to see what was going to work for me.
Jenn Junod
That's awesome. And I, I wanna add this in because I, my experience at that point was a little different. But something that I'd always have done until my current relationship is I became a chameleon in everything. So I ended up dating a lot of different people because I didn't want to be alone and I became a chameleon in the fact of they liked off Roading. I liked off roading, they liked anime. I liked anime, they liked partying. I suddenly liked partying, not my forte whatsoever.
And there's a lot of them, I ended up going skydiving. That's pretty cool. It's a cool life experience but not something that's my jam. And I bring that up in the fact of how, and, and you might have already known this be beforehand. I know it took me quite a while. But how do you know what your interest was? Not what your husband's interest was and learning to find yourself in your, just yourself.
Jasmine Rice
It's process. I, I do want to mention you said that you were a chameleon. It reminds me of actually one of the chapters in the book I write about, this, there's a movie Runaway Bride with Julia Roberts in it and she is talking about how she doesn't know the kind of eggs she liked because she always liked him the way that her boyfriend likes them.
And it was she needed to figure out how to like her own eggs. And that's, that made me think about that. But, it was a process for me because I did like the things that liked. I thought that we had the exact same taste when decorating a house. And then when I got to decorate my first apartment by myself, I was like, wow, I actually don't have the same taste as him.
I like, I got a white couch like, and I spill things, but I did it because I really liked it. But I, I thought that we were, I think more similar than we really were, you know, and it was, just trying some different things. I, I remember, watching the show that I thought that I liked because it was a show we watched together and I'm like, hm, no, this really isn't a show I like. And so getting to do different things and trying different things to see what you like.
I really, I got to know myself. I fell in love with myself and I don't know if I ever was before and it was, it was sad and lonely at times. Absolutely. I'm not trying to like, think that this was a great experience for me to discover myself. I would never wish someone having to go through divorce. But if I wouldn't have gone through that, I wouldn't have found who I really am
Jenn Junod
that not as powerful. And I love the fact that you call it out that it's difficult and it's lonely. And I know for myself, I didn't start learning how to be by myself. And I got divorced in 2010. In 2017. I traveled internationally by myself because I really wanted this job internationally that my mentor was like, bro, you wanna go international? You'd never traveled internationally? Why would they hire you?
And I was like, oh, do, hey, so I went to Peru for two weeks by myself and one of the loneliest experiences yet incredible in the fact that I had to learn to trust my instincts and figure out what I liked and go off of, you know, if this was something that sat well with me and it sounds like you went through something similar with going through all your, different activities.
Jasmine Rice
Yes. And traveling was something as well. I, I love to travel and my ex husband and I traveled quite frequently and I remember the, the very first trip that I took was not international. That was my second trip and that was scary to do alone. a bravo to you for doing that. But my first trip I decided I was just going to go to Vermont to see the leaves changing.
I've always wanted to see that and I went alone and yes, it was, it was very lonely. There were a lot of tears, but this moment I, I remember I was on my way to my next destination and there was a waterfall and I was like shit. I want to get a picture of that waterfall. And so I there was nowhere to pull over. I had to go probably 10 minutes out of my way to turn around to go back something my ex-husband never would have done.
But it was so important to me to go get a picture of that waterfall and see the waterfall. So little things like that, like I, I can stop now, I can you know, I can stop and go to the bathroom if I'm on a road trip because I don't have to get there at the, this, you know, little things that I, I realized during that trip that, oh, this is, this is not, you know, I don't want to say it was a good thing, but this is, this is something for me.
I can do this for myself right now. And, traveling though was something that I always depended on him to, you know, make sure that he knew where the directions to the hotel were and having to figure all of that stuff out myself. Very empowering, scary, but empowering.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. I, so I was living in Arizona at the time. I can totally rate relate on the scary part in the fact that I had to fly to L A and then L A to Peru and then I went from Lima to Cuzco, which is where Machu Picchu is, is in Cusco, it's not near the capital. And then I had to the same day I thought this was gonna be so cool in the time zones. I did not put them all together.
I had to fly from Cusco to Lima, Lima to Miami, Miami to L A and then L A to Phoenix, which L A to Phoenix was a different ticket. I booked it for the same day. So when I landed in Miami, my flight in L A was taking off and luckily I got an email saying that or it would have taken off. I got an email saying that they were super, super delayed and like four hours delayed.
So don't even show up at the airport. So I called them and I'm like, hey, so since you guys are so delayed, can you just move me to tomorrow? So that way I can just spend another day here? And they were like, yeah, sure, no problem and they did it for free. And I was like, that was my first international traveling experience with flights. I can tell you I definitely double check a lot more but you navigate you figured it out.
Yeah, yeah, terrifying. But I figured it out. I will admit I know that you grew up with your dad and I'm not sure if it's similar for you. I'm, I'm not very close with my father at all, but I'm very close with my mom. So I definitely still call her when there's a crisis. She doesn't always know how to help me solve it, but I normally will talk out loud to her and I'm like, oh, ok, that's how I do it.
So that is a a line of support. But how, so it sounds like you're definitely starting to find yourself at that point. How long ago was your divorce to when you started your coaching business?
Jasmine Rice
So my coaching business started about two years ago. And I honestly, when I started my coaching business, only having been divorced a year is not a long time. And that is why I actually wanted to start it because I wanted to be real. I wanted to be real and raw and I wanna be able to be able to relate to me and connect with me and I work with clients who I feel like they can be vulnerable with me because I've been there and I I wanted to be able to help them from someone who still could feel it who could still relate to the hurt and the pain and the shit that you're going through with a divorce. So that's why I started it so soon where, as I think, you know, if I would have waited to start it five years after the divorce, you've healed so much, which is great, but really being able to tie into and connect to some of that pain that would still kind of bubble up with me.
Jenn Junod
That's why I started it so soon after the divorce and, and that's, that's definitely something that I don't know just thinking about it and going through that. I'm like, that's terrifying. Like it's like reopening the wound every single time yet. So incredible to be able to help yourself because it sounds like you helped yourself heal, helping others heal.
Jasmine Rice
Absolutely. That's the truth. The, the blogs I started blogging prior to coaching and my blogs were just kind of me getting my feelings out there. My thoughts out there, my journey and the responses I was getting from people and how they could connect and relate really was what drove me to get the coaching certification and the N LP certification
because I I loved that feeling that I could help somebody through having gone through such a challenging time in my life. If that could help somebody else, I wanted to do it.
Jenn Junod
That's amazing. And where does, somebody start? Like, what, where do people show up when they come to you? How do they show up?
Jasmine Rice
So people right now primarily find me, my website, the organic searching for like life coaches with divorce recovery or social media. And, when I talk to somebody, I want to make sure they're in a place to work with a coach though because you can still be raw and have emotions and be in the grieving process. But there's a difference of when you should be working with a coach versus a therapist.
And I think that both are amazing. But if you're still in that place where you're not ready to start moving forward, a coach is probably not going to be the best place to start, so it could be a therapist. So I do a 30 minute consultation for free just to make sure that they're really ready to start moving forward and they don't have to be healed.
They can still be part of grieving. But when you work with a coach, you want to set goals, you want to be very forward focused. And if they're not there yet, I'll refer them to, to work with a therapist and then come back to work with me when they're really ready to kind of start that transition
Jenn Junod
to, to repeat that back to you just to make sure I'm picking up what you're putting down. If they're thinking about like, ok, I'm divorced now. Now, what, like I wanna go figure out my life that's forward thinking. If they're in the part where they're like, why this happened? They're horrible. Why, like, it's all my fault or along those lines, that's more of, you know, thinking in the past and meaning to go to a therapist.
Jasmine Rice
Yes. Yes. If there's still a lot of the, the denial, the anger, the bargaining that happened in grief, if you're still really battling those, that's gonna be probably more beneficial if you're working with a therapist or using your friends and family support system, it's that forward focus is when a coach can come in and, and kind of help push you.
Jenn Junod
Very cool, very cool. And II, I think that answers the, the core question I really wanted to ask is how do people show up? And like, when they show up? Because I know that after my divorce, there were times I'd come home from a party because I didn't really wanna go. But I didn't want to be alone that I fall asleep crying myself to sleep on like the bathroom floor. You know, when I was supposed to be brushing my, my teeth, it would be me just sobbing.
And I, I honestly don't know when there was a point where I was like, there's a future and that's so getting the two clarity of, you know, when to go to a coach and when to go to a therapist is something that I don't think a lot of people really consider or talk about. And, yeah, go ahead.
Jasmine Rice
Yeah, I would agree. And that's, I think that 30 minute consult that I do is really making sure that I know where they're at. I mean, and then there's no shame in it. You know, if they are not ready to work with the coach, then I just, I don't want to take somebody's money. If they're, if they're not at that place yet, I would rather them still be working on, you know, getting through that grieving process. But, I mean, I have clients that you still will cry.
I mean, I've been divorced for, for three years and there's still some days where I might get a little misty eyed because something triggers me and I think about something, but that's ok. That doesn't mean I haven't moved forward. But I think that, even just having that call with, you know, with me to, to determine, ok, should I be working with the coach yet or is the, the therapy the way to go?
Jenn Junod
And you brought up a, a really good, point of there's no shame in it and I think that's something we really need to focus on is the, the stigma and the shame and like the grief is, is something that I think is a little bit more known of. You know, it's a dying relationship. It's a part of you that died.
And that part I do feel is a bit more well known, but the shame behind it. And you mentioned on our intro call that you experienced that shame. And I guess even to myself, I know I felt the shame but I don't, I don't even understand why there's shame behind it.
Jasmine Rice
I think you can look at it as if you, you failed at something, nobody enters into a marriage thinking that they're gonna get divorced. And so even if it's best, even if that's what both parties want, it's still like a, a failure per se because people view divorce as something that it's wrong and you're not supposed to do it and you work through it.
I mean, getting a, a license to get married is so easy, but actually getting a divorce, the whole process is very long and lengthy and I know it's different in every state. But in Colorado, you have to wait three months. And so it just makes it kind of yucky and it doesn't feel good. And so there's a failure. I think that goes along with it, even though, like 50% of the people that get married get divorced, it's just this, this sense of failure that you didn't, you didn't finish something that you, you went into and the shame, I mean, the shame that is with that as well. I, I had to learn how to forgive myself, which was something that was, really challenging. I had forgiven my ex-husband way before I had forgiven myself for everything. You know, that I feel played a role in, in the divorce and, you know, it takes two people. It, it does. And, when I finally was able to forgive myself, that was even more, I guess rewarding than, you know, forgiving him.
Jenn Junod
Did you? And I agree that forgiving yourself, like if for myself, where is, is hard on a daily basis on, on like anything. But how did you work with a therapist when you got divorced?
Jasmine Rice
So I worked with a therapist and a coach. so I worked with a therapist, that I felt was honestly coddling me a little too much at the time. So I stopped working with them and kind of took a break while I was working with the coach. And then I found this amazing therapist that was very real which I appreciated and I liked that and she wasn't holding my hand and, you know, telling me, oh, it's all going to be ok. And I like, I like the reality of that. And, the coach I worked with was very similar, you know, like this is gonna suck, but you're going to be able to get through it. You're going to have good days and bad days. And, I think working with both of them is what was very, very beneficial. But there were also times when I just, I did a lot of self work on myself, you know, just alone by myself and meditating with myself. And, you know, I, I run, I'm a distance runner, so I did a lot of thinking on my runs. That was very healing for me. My, my running therapy.
Jenn Junod
That, that's good. That's good. And where at what point or what do you think helped the most on forgiving? Getting to the point of forgiving yourself?
Jasmine Rice
I think it was, I think this goes back to what I was blogging about and what I was writing about and what I was encouraging other people to do. And I wanted to make sure that I was practicing what I preached. And so I wrote down and I journaled a lot of those things that were still eating at me about many things, you know, in, in the marriage. And when I was able to view them and say them out loud to myself that, you know, I've, I've, I've learned from these mistakes that I've made, I've
learned from this and look at them more as, like learning opportunities and things that I don't want to do again or I want to do different and I viewed it that way, rather than regretting things because you can't change the past. You can't. And so if you're just sitting there constantly thinking, I wish I could have done this or I would have done that differently.
You can't, you can't go back and change it. All you can do is acknowledge it and make the decision that you're not going to do something in the future or that you are going to do something in the future. So when I did that, I was really able to forgive myself
Jenn Junod
and that as we were talking earlier, it's definitely really difficult to do. I, and thank you for doing that because now you're helping so many other people along their journey, what, how would you go about? And I'm pretty sure you've, you've written this in your book. So let me maybe restart this question.
You've mentioned that you've done a lot of blogging and of course, you have your coaching business. What what made you want to write your book and then what, how does your book help separately from your blogs and from your coaching?
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
So what made me want to write.
Jasmine Rice
My book was because of all the different self help books that I read. I felt like many of them were contradicting each other. Because if you do these five things, you're gonna be happy. If you, you know, if you complete this gratitude journal for the next 30 days, life's going to be perfect. And I, I was getting frustrated, I think with the, the, the books contradicting themselves and even sometimes within the same book.
And so I wanted to let other people know the process that I went through because I think that it's a very confusing, scary overwhelming process when you're going through a divorce or really any, you know, challenging transition in your life and people are telling you you should do it this way, you should do it this way. And that's what my book's about.
It's, there's not one size fits all approach to anything and I do give some soft suggestions, but I also say try it if it doesn't work for you, that's ok too. So it is a self help book in a sense. But it's also, I think it gives a different perspective that there is, it's ok to, to try different things and read a self help book and the whole thing doesn't have to resonate with you. You can just take chapter two, that one. I like it and that's ok. And how it different differentiates from my blogs and there's definitely some crossover in them and you'll see, you would see that if you read my blogs and you read my book. But I go into more personal stories about myself in my in my book than I do in my blog. So I, I start each one with just something that's happened in my life, some personal things that are there. It's not a memoir. It is still more of a self help guide. But I think my blogs are more focused on a lot of self care, personal growth, forgiving yourself those things.
Jenn Junod
Very cool. And how is your book on, where do they find your book? And is it on audio book as well?
Jasmine Rice
So, not audio book yet, but that's on my list of things. But it's Kindle and and paperback. So you can purchase it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble online.
Jenn Junod
Very cool. And I, I always ask about the audio books because I'm horribly dyslexic, horribly and audio books have just saved my life and podcasts because then I'm actually able to learn. And that's something that I really struggled with in school is I didn't realize I was dyslexic back then.
So I'm very excited to hear that that's on your, you know, your goals now before wrapping this up and I know that we, we did talk about your journey and different aspects of it. I wanna just double check. Is there anything that we left out that you do want to go over and dive deeper into?
Jasmine Rice
I would just say that, it's, it's, well, I think I'm gonna say this because I'm going to be running a marathon here shortly. But, it, it's not a sprint when you're going through a divorce or when you're going through again. Anything in life, I'm, I'm a very impatient person and I, of course, I wanna, you know, just feel better. I wanna not hurt.
I want to wake up and move on to my next chapter. But, it's a process and going through all of that is what's going to heal you. If you try to fast forward through all the ugly parts in life, you're gonna miss the good parts. And so even though it's challenging and it's hard, look at what you're learning from that because, you're, you're learning a lot even in those dark, hard times and then it's gonna help you when you start to move forward.
So it's a process, it takes time, takes time, you know, you want to get in shape. It's not gonna happen overnight. You can't do five push ups and, and be in shape, you know. So it's right. We all do everything takes time. It's a process. So just, just looking at when those, when those times get really hard trying to really dig into, what am I learning from this? Right? Now? And what am I going to be able to take with me into my next chapter?
Jenn Junod
And I really liked how you said that. what did I learn? And what can I take into the next chapter? Because the entire time we've been having this conversation, one thing that keeps popping into my mind is that yes, you're a divorce coach yet, by someone learning how to be happy with themselves and learn about themselves and be true to themselves that that allows them to be happier in their next relationship and have healthier relationships. And I think that is, is so encouraging because there's a lot of relationship coaches out there. But they don't always deal with the bullshit that happens to the point where you actually want to go look for someone, you know, and I at least for someone being divorced, I appreciate. There are people like you in the world because going through the bullshit is hard. It's 100% really hard and we, we gotta do it and I'm grateful that there's people out there like you that can help us with it. Thank you.
Jasmine Rice
Yeah. And learning to love yourself is, is so important. I mean, just loving yourself. Self love is not selfish. I think people think it is we want to take care of everybody else.
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
But self love is so not selfish.
Jenn Junod
Agreed, agreed.
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
And any other words of encouragement that you'd like to leave our audience with, I would say just keep moving forward.
Jasmine Rice
You know, we're all gonna have bad days, we all do, but just keep moving forward. And I know I mentioned the gratitude journal earlier. But what, remember what? You're grateful for each day, even the little things, it doesn't have to be something huge. But, you know, you know, winners coming up and be grateful for warm socks.
You know, little things when you say the things that you're grateful for every day, it, it helps keep you going. So just one step, 1 ft in front of the other, one step at a time, keep moving forward.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. And you, you keyed that up perfectly. I and I to the, the gratefulness and, and one of the biggest reasons we're doing this at the end of each episode is yes, doing a gratitude journal for 30 days is not gonna change, you know, everything for you in life. I mean, I wish it did that would be great, but it does to your point. It helps change that perspective and remembering that, you know, for me, I'm incredibly grateful to have the, the resources to be able to do this podcast and those who want to come on and share the real shit and then, and being able to talk about divorce and being able to talk about, you know, just so everyone knows when Jasmine applied to be on the podcast, she told me she would talk about poop when running marathons, we did not talk about that today, Jasmine may have to come back at some point. But the fact that she would talk about that shit made me really happy.
Jasmine Rice
Absolutely. I would totally come back and talk about that.
Jenn Junod
But like having people like you on the podcast, I'm so grateful for and so grateful that you have your divorce coach because we definitely need that in the world. And what are you grateful for?
Jasmine Rice
You know, I am grateful for everything that has happened in my life. The good and the shit and it's true because I honest to God would not be doing what I'm doing today and being able to help people if I hadn't gone through everything that I've gone through in life, you know, and those hard times they made me stronger and I am so grateful for all of the experiences that I've gone through.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that and thank you for sharing and awesome jasmine. How do people before we, we sign off for the day? How do people find you and get a hold of you?
Jasmine Rice
The easiest way is to visit my website, which is my company name. Good things are gonna come.com and that's gonna not going to so good things are gonna come.com and all my social media you can find on the website and information to buy my book. And also I have a free book that you can download an ebook and working with me and my blog, all of that's available on my website.
Jasmine Rice, Jenn Junod
The things are gonna come.com yay.
Jenn Junod
Thank you, Jasmine. It's been great having you on the show.
Jasmine Rice
Thank you so much for having me.
