S1 E56 Shit2TalkAbout Humans Only with Chenoa Daniels
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Jenn Junod
Hey Shanoa, thank you for joining. Shit. You don't want to talk about. Please introduce yourself and the shit you wanna talk about today.
Chenoa Daniels
Hey, Queen, I'm so pumped to be here today. I'm so excited. And basically, I'm a performance poet. I'm an author and a speaker and I'm a book publicist and a business owner and I'm a return peace Corps volunteer.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
So there's lots to talk about today and just like so much going on.
Jenn Junod
And I just love your energy and audience and beautiful humans. Chanel and I met because she reached out to me about getting Doctor Naima on this show and I just fell in love with Shanoa story as well. It was actually Shanoa push that got me to finally make the dive into starting to write my own book.
And I just like, it's not just, you know, it's energy but her style and we talked about the Peace Corps and I've known a few that have gone through the Peace Corps and it can be pretty intense life altering because you go to different countries.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
And Shanoa tell us a bit about your time in the Peace Corps for those who don't know what the Peace Corps is.
Chenoa Daniels
It's, it's a government agency program. And when you go, you're actually not a government agent, but you're a volunteer and you basically applied to go for two years and three months to another country for service and it has to be a country that is asking for help. So it can be, one of, I think there's about 64 countries that the Peace Corps has been in over the years, it's been in existence. And now when you apply for the Peace Corps, you have a choice of which region you wanna go to or
which continent at least. But when I applied in 2014, you didn't have a choice. It was just be open, be open. And so I actually ended up being selected to go to South Africa, which was not on my radar. I was all things Latin America. I had learned Spanish, I'd been to Costa Rica Mexico. I became a Zumba instructor so that I could prepare for Peace Corps and Spanish and all that.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
And then Peace Corps was like, yeah, no, you're gonna, you're going to Africa and that, but that by itself I think would be very shocking and really quick.
Jenn Junod
It does it, from your knowledge. Does the Peace Corps have an age limit or an age restriction on who can volunteer?
Chenoa Daniels
It starts at age 18 and just goes up, I think the oldest volunteer that they've ever had was age 93. So there's no, but there's just a minimum of 18 and I believe you have to have at this point you have to have a Bachelor's degree or higher.
Jenn Junod
Interesting. OK. And for those not watching on youtube, I, one of the biggest reasons that we mention Africa and I wanna call it out is Shoah is black and the reason we call that out, you will find out throughout the story and her experience. So what was it like? You find out, how long are you in the Peace Corps before you'd find out your destination?
Chenoa Daniels
You go to a training space, all together, all however many there are of you, there were 31 of us and we were in a neighborhood being trained every day at this local place. For three months, we were learning language, we were learning security things, culture things, and we were sent for either education or HIV and health HIV and A I DS health education.
So my sector was HIV and A I DS health education. And so after the three months, there's like a big announcement day and then they tell you in random order. OK. Shanoa, you're assigned to blah, blah, blah province in the such and such neighborhood. And that's, that's how I found out.
Jenn Junod
Oh, damn. OK. And how, first off like how were you feeling about going to Africa and then your friends, family church? Like, how are they all feeling about you going to Africa?
Chenoa Daniels
I was very excited because when I was 15, I used to volunteer at the Latin American Association again. I often like, I don't know, I love the culture. I love culture. Anyway, I was volunteering there and I was helping the volunteer coordinator with English as a second language courses and the food pantry, all kinds of stuff in the Atlanta area.
And the coordinator at the time she was a white woman and she was about 30 years old or something and nothing ever went right. When we were doing stuff, things just always, I don't know what, just stuff always fell apart, but she always held it together. And I'll be honest, I wasn't used to being around younger white women keeping a level head when things went awry.
I mean, when things just went bad, I just wasn't used to it and she was so chill. And so I asked her one day, why are you always so chill? Like nothing ever goes, right? All the programs we planned. She was like, oh, I did this thing called Peace Corps and nothing ever goes. Right. I was like, what's that? And when I found out about it, I was in love.
It was just, it was, it was for me. And so I was, I had spent the next 10 years trying to get into the Peace Corps going to all the seminars and applying and stuff like that. So when I applied the first time, because I applied twice, when I applied the first time, I told all my friends, I told my family, you know, I told everybody and, it wasn't received well at all.
And I'm an avid traveler. Both of my parents were in the army. So I was confused because we've been traveling all the time. But never to, to, Africa and never to someplace by myself. So the first time I applied, I went to church one night and I was very big in my church, like, did a lot of stuff and it was a small church and I was getting ready to leave early from one event we were having and there was a visiting pastor.
She saw me get up and she said, where are you going? And she was on the microphone and I said, oh, I gotta go home, you know, and she was like, no, come up here and I went up there and she asked me like, what am I doing? What are my goals? And I was like, oh, I'm going to the Peace Corps. I can't wait. She was like the what? And I told her about it and she said, oh, no, you cannot go into the Peace Corps.
Your church needs you here. I'm gonna pray against that right now. And so, yeah, I know. And so she prayed against it and because I wasn't that confident in myself, I, and she was a, you know, a figure of authority that I respected. I, I received that and I shunned myself kinda, and I put my application away and asked the recruiter to, you know, just put my application aside.
And then, four years later I was on a date with a guy and he's like, I don't know if this is gonna work out because I'm getting ready to do this thing called Peace Corps. And I was like, what? I almost did that and he was like, why didn't you? And I was like, oh, well, and I told him, and he said, well, that just sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. I was like, cut it.
Yeah. So I got angry just like you did. And I was like, you can't tell me what to do what I feel, blah, blah, blah. So I did the application over the first time I did the application right? Four years prior. It took me six months to do it. This time when this guy made me angry, it took me three days. I put it in, I sent it in and I didn't tell anyone anything that was January 2014.
I told no one until everything was set in stone. And then when I found out I was leaving and everything was good to go. I told them like October 2014 and I was leaving in January and everybody flipped out again. my dad wouldn't talk to me for like two weeks because he was scared. I think my mother, she said, you know, you're always doing stuff like this.
You know, your little mother, Teresa, what is, what is this? OK, tell me about it. My sister was like, well, if you wanna do it, go ahead with my sister. But everybody else that was when Ebola was happening and they were like, you're gonna catch Ebola, you're gonna die. The lions are gonna eat you new. You know, there's cannibals in Africa is I, I was like, what?
Yeah, I'm leaving. I was in the middle of grad school. I had, I had, what's it? One semester left? I told them in January that I was leaving. Yeah, I told them, like, the beginning of January that I was leaving January, I wanna say 17th or 19th, yeah, 17th, 19th, that's what it was. And then I told them like January 5th and they were like, you can't leave.
You're in the middle of grad school, you have to finish your thesis. I was like, I'm leaving. I don't know what we're gonna do. I'll finish this when I come back. And they were like, you have to present, you have to do something. And I was like, fine. They're like, you have two days and then you have to present. I was like, OK, because I was not about to give up my dream again.
Never. I like, I, I did not want to feel how I felt four years prior letting that dream that I'd had for so long die because of what somebody said to me. So I, I just, I just did it and I stayed up for two days and I practiced and I did the, I defended my thesis and I left and I was supposed to graduate in May, but I just I flew out January 19th.
Jenn Junod
Damn, there is, there's a lot to unpack there. only because, like, this is the first hanger that I'm, like, super stuck on. Did you pass? Defending your thesis and graduate?
Chenoa Daniels
Yeah, I did. That's what I did. So I finished the thesis, the defense but then the actual paper, you know, research part and edits and all that I told them I will find an internet cafe somewhere while I'm there and I will send you edits whenever I can.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
And they were like, ok, and I did, ok.
Jenn Junod
And, what was your, what did you go to grad school for?
Chenoa Daniels
I got my master of public Health from Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta. Thus, the HIV and A I DS health education. Why they assigned me to peace?
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
Why the Peace Corps assigned me to HIV and A I DS health education stuff.
Jenn Junod
Got it. Got it. Ok. And thank you for explaining that because I am, really quick. We got a bit of feedback all of a sudden. can you try? Oh, maybe that just fixed it? I don't know. You just moved and we're good. Ok, if you back any. Oh, no, it's back.
Chenoa Daniels
Is it me?
Jenn Junod
I think so.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
It might be your mic and your headphones too clo like the mic of the headphones too close to your other mic because this mic is, how about this?
Jenn Junod
Sounds great and I'm not hearing feedback. Sweet. So technical issues happen to everybody. So thank you for fixing that real quick. It's back and then it goes away. I'm so confused.
Chenoa Daniels
Maybe it's, I have my phone here. Let me turn this cloud with there. Hold on. If I need to, I'll, I'll unplug this and we can just edit this part out if we want or leave it.
Jenn Junod
I know I like to leave. I think so. But I guess we'll find out through talking and I like leaving this stuff because it's life like this is just how shit happens.
Chenoa Daniels
Let me know and if not, I'll just unplug everything and just talk with the computer mic sweet so far.
Jenn Junod
So good. So now going back to you were talking about even just the first time you applied, you told everybody and you had the visiting preacher pray against you. I am just imagining because like I can get friends and family like nervous about it. They've never been there and they haven't had that experience caught like, you know, their, their brains are going for the worst yet.
Having someone in that authority figure go against you looking to a higher power. I feel like that is just like very can be very earth shattering. And how did you handle that or your family when they found out about it? Because did that like shake anything up for you?
Chenoa Daniels
What that is, is manipulation when you try to control someone it's manipulation and I still love, I still love God and stuff like that, but I realized that that person, that human person made an error and I forgive her. But when it happened, I was, I was, I was embarrassed one because it was on the microphone in front of everyone. And it's a small church too.
And the reason why part of the reason why she said that is because I, I'm very active in my church. So I, I was singing and then I think I was helping ushering that day and I was doing something else and it was very obvious that I do a lot in the church. And so to her, it was taking away gifts and service from that particular church location and she wasn't my pastor, she was a visiting pastor.
So it made it even more like, well, I didn't want to disrespect her even though I'm being disrespected. But I was, I was younger, I was just, I just wasn't that confident to say, don't tell me what, you know, I, and, and also too, you know, I thought we were serving the same God. And so I just was like, well, maybe she's right, maybe she's right. And so, no one there and some of my family was there said anything against her. And probably because they felt that same, you know, trying to
respect authority moment. And it was a great learning lesson. I don't regret it or something like that. I'm glad it happened because now I have this fire of like I'm going to do what I feel like I need to do or what I feel like God's telling me to do like I'm gonna do this no matter who you are, you know. So it just gave me a sense of fire that I probably needed because I have healed from people pleasing now, you know, that's amazing.
Jenn Junod
And, and I specifically asked because I think a lot of people and have gone through something similar when, especially in church or a spiritual setting and the fact of using, oh goodness, I've heard it where it's like spiritual abuse or spiritual manipulation. And so I just really wanna touch base on that and I appreciate you calling that out and how you talked about that. It was a huge learning lesson for you to really focus on believing in yourself and going after what you truly
believe in. Now, another part that really stuck out to me is you, did you ever find out if you got approved? I know you told the recruiter for the Peace Corps to put your your application on the side. But did they ever find out if you got approved or not or they just let it go?
Chenoa Daniels
I asked her to, what's the word it starts with an r rescind rescind application? I sent a formal email saying, like they had sent me to the next step basically in the application process. And I went back to her and said, oh, I rescind my application got it.
Jenn Junod
And, and that's tough. That is like a, when I've had to do that, at least it felt like a, eat your words kind of moment where you're like, I don't, I don't, I don't want it, and a bit of shame there. And I, I love the fact that you talk about that. It still showed up in your life where four years later you're out on a date and this guy is about to go.
And now you said the first time it took you six months to apply, then it took you three days to apply. Was it because a lot of those answers were already done? Or was it easier to answer these questions because you had a more solid foundation of who you were the latter?
Chenoa Daniels
I said, I don't care, I don't care what is going on. Who, what, when, where, how it doesn't matter. I'm going to the Peace Corps like I love culture. Like I can't even explain to you. I remember seeing Sesame Street when I was four. I can see myself sitting in my Sesame Street rocking chair and walking watching this one episode where they're, they're all sitting in a circle.
Everybody's wearing a different color shirt with their mom and dad and they're singing this rabbit song. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about and they're like, help me, help me the rabbit. It's a, it's a cultural thing. There's like native Americans and there's Latinos and there's black people and white people and Asians and I remem it's just, I think that's what burned into my brain as a kid. Like, I wanna sit around with people who look like a rainbow and I wanna see
Kumbaya and Peace Corps. Is that a kind of, you know, and I have to do this. I have to do this. I don't feel good if I don't do this. So I was just like, I don't care what, I don't care what's on this application. I'm gonna make up something I'm gonna put it. It wasn't already filled in and prepopulated. No, I just like I stayed up all night just every I just filled in.
Jenn Junod
That is amazing. And thank you. And I definitely, I know Sesame Street was a thing growing up for me. I, I definitely, I was never a I don't think I ever really watched it. I don't know. My mom might tell me differently, but II I can still relate to just wanting to like dive into that culture and seeing so many cultures for myself. It had my next door neighbor.
I was from Mexico and she would bring me around to dance classes, making homemade tortillas. Her. I'm an only child. And her family was like the biggest family I've ever met and she was also a lesbian. Well, she probably still is, but she's a lesbian and which was also, this is the early nineties that I'm a little kid. I don't know, anything different yet.
She set the expectation of there's so much out there in the world. And my favorite movie was Aladdin. And it's crazy to me because I never wanted to be Jasmine. I wanted to be Aladdin because I wanted to like, you know, go be like Indiana Jones and go like adventure and go do all of this. So I love the fact that you bring up Sesame Street and seeing these different cultures because we do have a had a previous guest sho meta and she talks about how she's actually developing books for
Children that showcase all of these different cultures. And she makes it so that way. Like each country has like their most popular food, their religion and like where it is in the world. And I just, I love that so much because I was like, I referenced Indiana Jones because in Aladdin, because those are the only two that I really saw and she uses her sons in the books because we need more representation. And I was like, I probably would have had a different superhero.
That's not some random like white dude, but that's all that was on TV. So I love that she's being a part of that change of representation. And you're also showing another piece that showed that representation that there are so many different cultures. Now talking about that and cultures and you're getting ready to go to Africa, what were you thinking would happen when you got to Africa first?
Chenoa Daniels
I thought it was gonna be hot year round.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
No, it's, that is good to know.
Chenoa Daniels
I froze another story and I hate cold. I hate the cold. All right. I also didn't know anything about South Africa itself, other than I knew Nelson Mandela did something great and I knew that South Africa was at the bottom of Africa, like at the very southernmost tip. That's all I knew. And I was like, ok, well, I know there's black people so they're gonna love me. That's all I know.
Jenn Junod
All right. All right. And you're getting in there, you show up in Africa, you find out that it's cold, which I feel like would be a shocker, especially if you only pack for warm. And I know I'm thinking of South Africa and I've met some people from towards the end, bottom of South Africa and the only people that I've met are white people from South Africa. And that, I believe they have quite a population there where there is a lot of racism there as well.
And I, I just mentioned that because I, I know a lot of people and you please correct me where I'm wrong on this. That a lot of people think all of Africa is just like black people and cannibals. Like you mentioned that your family was scared of and there, there's so many different countries and, or states, what would you call them? States?
Chenoa Daniels
Within the country, within the country, there's states but around the continent, their countries.
Jenn Junod
Ok, cool. Thank you. And they're, they're all have all the different countries have different cultures. I, what you, you thought, I, we mentioned in the before we started recording in the intro call that you thought you were just gonna fit in helping all of these individuals. How did you, how was that?
Chenoa Daniels
So I have met, I met two people from South Africa in my lifetime before going one was this white guy I went to high school with, but I didn't pay him any mind and one was an English teacher, but she looked kind of Indian. So when she would tell us she's from South Africa, we kind of made, we just made fun of her and I didn't believe her. And so going to South Africa, I just thought there was just gonna be black people.
I, I forgot about the guy I met in high school. I didn't really think there'd be white people. And I didn't know the history either. So when I arrived with the trainers and everything I told you that we were all together for three months, all the group of us. So we were like in a, in a little insulated bubble for a little while and we stayed in a village with in the bee people and they have dark skin like, like me.
So it was kind of like expected and they were cool. They actually received me. Well, they're in the ballet people. the issues as far as race and religion started to come up during training because that was part of the seminars we had to learn about. So we had to go to different activities so we could learn firsthand what was going on in the country.
We had to learn about up out of bed. We had to learn about their version of Jim Crow laws that they had going on there and we had to go to two places that were very significant. We had to go to the Fort Reer Museum, which is, which in essence is like a museum about pioneers. If you, if you will in South Africa, it's about the the Dutch and the boors and people who came from Europe European places to come to South Africa because they heard there was jewels there.
So they started coming in the cape of good hope at the very bottom. And then they started to bring their families later. So those are the, they're not pioneers, but they're called for thre. So they have a Ford Thre Museum at the Capitol and it showcases their history and it kind of does it by taking out other people's history, but it is a museum and they established it and they're the ruling party for a time.
Then we had to go to that museum. This is everything out. It's a big of what happened in the country. And so when I went to the Fort Tracker Museum, they actually warned us that c come to this museum, they leave the tour or stay. Please don't leave.
Jenn Junod
Well, I was really quick, I'm gonna pause you real quick because you're cutting up and I feel like this is a really important part. Let's give it just a second because your video froze too. Oh,
...
Jenn Junod
hello again.
Chenoa Daniels
Can you hear me?
Jenn Junod
Yes, you're still lagging a bit.
Chenoa Daniels
Let me double check my wifi. No, I that the full strength, how's the, is there? Feedback?
Jenn Junod
It's not the feedback. You're just, your words are cutting out quite a bit and especially while you're talking about this this museum. I know that it's important and I, you're moving, I can see you moving around now. So maybe we're good to go now.
Chenoa Daniels
I mean, I'm, I'm connected to the, the Wi Fi
Jenn Junod
then. Hopefully we're good and we get to just move past this. I, I would say like just going back because you did really start to mention some very, very important topics of you were talking about the European settlers started, they didn't necessarily find or, you know, to Africa, South Africa, they heard that there were jewels. So they started moving there with their families and then you started going into the museum and could you, pick us up right there?
Chenoa Daniels
Sure. Can you hear me clearly? Yes. Ok. So the fourth rer museum was the museum I was speaking of. And so they made a museum that showcased that whole process of them coming from Germany and England, which by the way, the, the Dutch and the English don't like each other. In South Africa. They have been fighting each other forever since they got there.
And so they have been fighting in competition to see who would be the ruling party and the basically the Dutch Germans won. That's where apartheid was like the founders of apartheid were like German. So the Apartheid museum was a visit we made and it was the complete opposite. It will it like filled in the gaps that the for tracker museum laid.
So when you go, it's a, it's a very well constructed museum. It's like all white people go this way and nonwhite people go that way. So they start you off having you feel like you were living through apartheid and all this stuff inside. And so when there's pictures about black Black South Africans, before the fourth Trekkers arrive, they're smiling, they're, they're gardening they have their cattle, what have you.
And then when the Germans and English arrived and there's pictures of black people. They're always sad and they're always crying and they have nothing but they're clutching a Bible. I've seen people clutching bibles or at church. So then again, my, you know, my faith again was challenged and I was like, what's going on? And I didn't make it through that museum either.
I, I laid on a bench and started crying because they were like nooses hanging around. It's a really good museum to get you. Yeah. And so I was pissed, I was just angry. I just, I was like, I don't understand if you're a good God. Why did you allow this stuff to happen to people and not just, you know, people that look like me people around the world, but especially since I was there, you know.
and so I ended up going to my room that night after the Apartheid Museum and kind of cussing God and like telling him like, I don't understand this is, I don't really even know if I want to do this with you anymore. And so I got my answer in the form of a poem that night and I wrote and it was like a download from heaven. So I've always written, and I've always written in a journal or a diary or whatever.
So I was writing in my diary, but this time I didn't have to think of anything. It just came and I just started writing and it was the answer to what I was yelling at God for. And it ended up being the first poem in the book, you know, that I wrote later. So the next day during our debrief and our training session, they asked us, how do we feel about the museums?
And we all like people started fighting because it was, it's intense race relations stuff. And I raised my hand and told them, you know, I don't really know how I feel, but I have this poem and I want to read it to you guys. And after I read it, there was silence like there was like no more fighting, people were crying and I even had someone come up to me later, a white lady who ended up being, becoming one of my really good friends.
She's a Christian and she was like, I don't even know how to say this but like, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry for what white people have done. Like I didn't do it but I know white people have done stuff and it's put you in a position where you are today. And I'm sorry. And I don't even know if I would have been able to say that if we lived through apartheid for real.
But I'm sorry. And she was like pouring tears and I just, I never experienced that from a white person. And I hugged her and I told her, you know what, I'm sorry because I don't know if I could have forgiven you and I'm supposed to. But thank you for being so real with me. Anyhoo. Her name is, her name is Anna Brady. And, her and her husband ended up having a child on my birthday a few years later.
And so there, I'm her God mom. So anyway, that whole thing, that whole experiencing race relations in another country that has it even worse than here because it's more in your face. And it's still very prevalent today was a very good thing for us. Again.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
A bad thing that turned good because we exposed stuff, put shine light in a dark place and we all came to a moment, you know, I really quick, I just wanna fill in the listeners on a few things that you mentioned that I think are very, very important for a lot of people that may not be, have done research about racism within the US in the past.
Jenn Junod
Yes, racism was inter like no longer allowed it. But the Jim Crow law was something that I you could say was like the exception to the rule. It was a loophole that it really enforced segregation still. And there was a big way of making it. So that way a lot of black people could, would still be paid so much less and it was completely allowed by law or, just treated so much worse. And the Jim Crow law, I believe I'm, I'm Googling it right now was from 1877 to 1950.
And, another part that I think is very important is your, the apartheid. And that is again, discrimination on the grounds of race. And, just to reiterate this, this is to what you said there are still so many issues going on with this. And I think knowing those definitions in the history, please continue on with how shining the light in the dark helped you develop and also grow during your experience there.
Chenoa Daniels
Thank you for eliciting that those particular points that I think that was really vital. One thing Isabel Wilkerson says, and she's the author of cast the origins of our discontents. She says, she doesn't use the word racism and she doesn't use white supremacy because there's only one race, the human race. So I really, I'm trying to adopt that definition as well.
And I feel like our group that went into the Peace Corps, we were just transformed in the best of ways. For example, I went to Cape town with a group for holiday and it was like me and seven other people, white people and Asian American black South African. And I can't remember, but that was a mix and we were all sitting in the lobby of a hotel in Cape Town and this white guy, I believe he was English, South African.
He came into the lobby and spoke to every one of us except for me. And he was like, where are you guys from? And he was like, you guys are American, right? And they're like, yeah, we're from America. And then he pointed at me and he said, even her, is she American too. And, before I could respond, one of my friends, this white guy, he was like, yeah, she's the most American out of all of us. And that like alli support was something that I desperately wanted when I was in that country.
And I like because all of us were in the trenches together in the Peace Corps doing the same work, having the same discussion shining a light in the dark places. He was able to do that. And it wasn't just that one time. That was just something that stayed in my mind that I wanted to tell our listeners like these things can change and they, they do with the right conversations.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for that because I, that really hits home for me because that's the entire reason that this podcast exists is to shine light in those dark places. And I like to say that I bust truck myself because I'm the one that asks those like awkward things I've even with the best intent, I have said things that have come across as ill intent. I guess this is the way to say it, even though I had the best intent, it definitely didn't, you know, go over well, and that's gonna, that's gonna
happen on these really tough conversations and I really appreciate that. You called out how an ally can be there. And now when you, that was definitely someone, you said of English descent, in South Africa that was there that said that questioning if you were American as well, how was it, would you say that the areas that you were going to for HIV support? Were they in tribes or what were the people like there?
Chenoa Daniels
So the assigned place where I was sent was a place called Lime Hill Village. And it's in the middle of Kwazulu Natal, which is a province that literally translates to house of the Zulus house of the Zulu people. So I was in Zululand. I lived with the people who are the descendants of Shaka Zulu. And I thought Shaka Zulu was a fairy tale. I didn't know he was a real person but he was and so that was good education for me.
The Zulus are an incredible people. I love them. But at first I did not because of the way I was treated. When I went to my village, I went to a small village. It had about 5000 people total living in it. It was two hours away from in, in a car from anything, grocery store or whatever. And the Zulus are magnificent because they are the last black tribe of South Africa to to have been conquered by the Germans and the Brits.
So when apartheid came into play and all this stuff was happening, the fights that led up to it included bringing slaves from other countries to become slaves inside of South Africa. So unlike the transatlantic slave trade, South Africa was different because they brought slaves in there versus exporting slaves. So they got slaves from Malaysia, Thailand, China, lots of slaves from India.
That's why Mahatma Gandhi was there actually. And that's why Doctor King came to learn from him because he was learning how to free his people from slavery in South Africa. Any who? so then the black tribes that were already there, there's so many one of them being Zulu. they also were enslaved later on and they were conquered one by one. But the Zulus were the descendants of Shaka Zulu who loves to fight and stand up for his people.
They would, they refuse to give in, they refused to bow down OK to the oppressors. And it took them, I wanna say, 202 150 years before they finally said, OK, people looks like we're losing as Zulu, you know, looks like we're gonna be your slaves, whatever, fine. But if you're gonna enslave us and tell us what to do, you're gonna have to do it in our mother tongue.
You're gonna have to speak to us in Zulu. That is crazy. Like that is so significant because they refuse to let go of their culture and their language and their food and you know, all the stuff that a lot of native Americans are trying so desperately to hold on to, you know, because it's being erased. So I respect the Zulus for that, but it carries on into their everyday lives. So when they see other black people like me, they assume at least in the small villages, not the big cities, but
in the small villages, they assume you're Zulu and they assume you speak Zulu, they do not like English. So when I arrived on the scene speaking English because I was still learning, I was ostracized and I was told that I was disrespecting the ancestors and that I need to speak my mother tongue and I need to stop pretending that I'm a Zulu trying to be better than everyone else like my nose in the air town.
Jenn Junod
Ha Yeah. Yeah. You got me all like work jumbled over here. So unpacking that a little bit. You, you I'm guessing you then had to learn Zulu and being able to communicate. And for many people the idea of immersion into another country to be able to learn the language is one of the easier ways to learn the language. I'm not saying that by any means because your experience does not.
It, it doesn't sound like a fun experience being able to do that because when people talk about doing immersion, they're like, yeah, I'm gonna move to Mexico and it's a choice and yes, it was your choice to go there yet. You had no idea that you were gonna have this language barrier that would also be disrespectful for not being able to, to speak their language. And how did you navigate that? Because if I can, the most relatable thing that I have in my head is like going to Peru and not
being able to speak Spanish or going to Bulgaria and not being able to speak Bulgarian. But enough people speak English that they kind of like help you through it as long as you're willing to try. Yeah, from what I'm hearing is that English is just a hard no go. So it's like even harder to learn that language and being able to communicate.
Chenoa Daniels
Yes. So I respect that she went to those different places as well to get those experiences though because language immersion is the best way to learn a language period. And I lived with a host family. So they understood that I was American. It took them a while to believe, but they unders they got it. And I had a supervisor that I worked with at the assigned organization where I was working, right? So my coworkers were nice and my host. Family was nice. So that's good.
I had peace in my home but when I was just out trying to find the right taxi to go home or something. And I would say, excuse me, can you tell me they'd be like, speak Zulu, they would say in Zulu speak Zulu. Now, you know, I'm like, I had my little dictionary. I'd be like, you know, so I ran into issues like that and then I had issues with men. So men in other countries have their own way of doing things, right? And in the big cities they have more of hold on just one second.
...
Chenoa Daniels
Sorry. No, it's no problem. My husband's working in the studio right now. So, yeah, so men have their own way of doing things in different countries and in the big cities, it's kind of westernized depending on where you are. But in the smaller villages it's, it's when in Rome. So, you know, you can get snatched, you can get kidnapped, you know, women are objectified and it's just normal, you know, and I I'm a black woman from America, so I, I really had a hard time with men anyway, but I
had a hard time with men in the, in the village area. So they would say things like as I'm walking by which is cool to be wanted but to be whistled at and gawked at and grabbed and groped. It's not ok. So, I walk by somebody and their idea of love is like washing their clothes for them and they'd be like, hey, girl, I, I could understand enough Zulu to understand that they're saying like, come wash my clothes for me and I'd be like, oh, don't talk to me.
You don't know me and blah, blah, blah. And I had security issues too. Or certain guys would ask me to sleep with them every day or every time I passed by their house and have sex with them in the bush. And I'd be like, no, I had to learn how to cuss in Zulu before I could learn how to say regular words because I didn't know how to tell them no. And, it got pretty bad and like, dude started throwing rocks at my house at night to come sleep with them and I wouldn't do it.
And then I called the police several times and just like, well, a lot of times here they didn't do anything. They came and they laughed and the police said, if you would just learn Zulu, these things wouldn't happen to you. So blame the victim. But I said, ok, I'm not leaving, you know, like I'm not leaving, you know, unless something drastic happens, I'm, I came here for a purpose.
I, I can leave because I'm a volunteer. But I've, I've been wanting to do this for 10 plus years. I'm not leaving because some corny guys are just can't keep themselves together. I have a job to do. And then I told my supervisor what was going on and he's like the village activist and he went off and he was like, no, they can't treat you like that.
And so they went on this community hunt basically. And they found out who it was and community justice happened and the guy disappeared for like six months and he came back and his arm was in a sling and he was limping and he wouldn't even look me in the eye anymore. He would like cross the street when he saw me coming. So community justice happened and then I decided I was gonna learn Zulu because they stood up, stood up for me and I learned Zulu. It took me about nine months to a year to
really have good command of the language. So during that quiet time, it was mostly just me, God in my journal is what I tell people. And I would just write, I would just write because nobody would really talk to me. My host family wanted to talk to me, but they didn't know English, you know. And then, yeah, so I just wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote about stuff and culture and life and I ended up turning it into a book fucker.
Jenn Junod
And that is so amazing. And I know that we have gone through a lot here of like just seeing if I can recap it all of your, your first application in the Peace Corps and the struggles within, you know, authority and, and any manipulation and your family's worries and then deciding to really go for your goals and not letting anybody stop you and finding yourself that way.
Then fast forward going to South Africa and there's a shit ton of racism and like even more so than in the US. And then having to experience that yet having allies there that is uplifting, even though you're going through all of this, then go to Zulu Zulu Land, Zulu tribe.
Chenoa Daniels
How would I say that?
Jenn Junod
Zulu Land, OK, go into Zululand and seen struggling with the language. But then seeing the beauty of community, which is something that I would say maybe westernized or the cities I don't necessarily have that I've, I've heard in some books that I've read that have, that these tribes do have much more of a community way of dealing with things.
And I mean, I feel like we could make this like its own series of finding out what you've learned while you're there. And yeah, we only have about 15 more minutes. So is there anything that you specifically wanted to touch on that we didn't touch on yet?
Chenoa Daniels
The beauty and all of that is that yes, that community feel is something I desperately miss. I want it back so bad. But one thing that came out of being in the Peace Corps besides the book for myself was that those people love me and I thought I was coming to help them. No, they helped me beyond anything I could ever really truly describe. For example, I know we have 15 minutes.
I'm gonna stay within that. I had been there about a year. I had finally learned enough language and I was walking home one day in tears. I'm an artist. I'm very emotional. I'm almost always crying about something. But anyway, my projects weren't working. I'd done about four projects and they had all failed in my eyes. I had learned enough Zulu.
But, you know, it was just a hard life. There was no running water. So you're washing your clothes by hand, there's electricity when the government says the village can have electricity. So it could be cooking chicken and then, oh, everything's off and then no chicken tonight. You know, so just lots of stress and stuff missing home and, and my project is not working.
So I'm walking home crying to my, you know, myself and this one girl runs up to me. She's like 17 years old and she's like, no, Kanya. Oh, that's my village name. No, Kanya. It means mother of the light. And she's like, no Kanye. No, Kanye. Wait. And I was like, what's up girl? And she was like, you're still here. I was like, yeah, and she was like, how long have you been here?
I said, oh, maybe a year. And she said we heard we thought when an American was coming that an American would only last about two or three weeks here. This is a hard life. I said, yeah, I know. But you know, I'm here and she was like, why? And I was like, because I love you guys and I just, I just wanna help. That's all. And she said, you know what? No Kanye because you wash your clothes like us and you ride the taxis like us and you, you walk everywhere like us.
You make me feel important. You make me feel like if somebody all the way from America can come here and do this with us, then I can be a great person. I can go to university college. You know, I wasn't going to go but I'm gonna go now because he made me feel like I can do it. So of course I started crying some more, you know, like, oh my God, it works, whatever I'm doing. My presence makes a difference. So I wanna tell people to get out of yourself, get out of your comfort.
I'm not saying go into the Peace Corps even though I think it's fabulous, but do something that is not your norm. Go out of your way to help someone. I'm not saying roll down your window and give a homeless person 50 cent out your window, which is great, but do something for someone else because you don't know how your presence is such a present to other people and it will help uplift you in ways you can't, you cannot quantify.
Jenn Junod
I really wanna pause because when you said what your tribe name was, I literally got chills of how just repeating what you said, how our presence truly can change other people at the same time, that acknowledgment and that change can change us. And I just feel like that is so incredible and we never really know what we put out there in the world or how we show up really does influence other people.
And I mean, I feel like this is just like a life thing that so many of us like struggle with is like finding ourselves and you know, our authenticity. And even though that's like a huge like buzzword right now and you go in there and be, you know how I'm hearing it is practicing what you preach, walking the walk. And that created more human connection when there wasn't even that like English, you know, crutch that you could use to be able to help with communication, to learn their
language. And thank you so much for sharing that. It is, it, it really is such an important. Yeah, there's there's so many big words going through my head, such an important lesson for us. To learn and to put ourselves out there is scary. I'm not gonna lie. It's scary. Do you find that now that you've done Peace Corps or traveling to other countries? Because you've said that you've done that too? That doing that makes things a bit less scary or how has that impacted you?
Chenoa Daniels
Definitely, Jen. When I left Africa, I, I just felt like I got this sense of I can do anything and Africa taught me that if I can do that, there's nothing I, I can't do. So it, it changed everything, it changed my career, it changed my life. I no longer work in HIV and A I DS, you know, in public health in that manner. You know, I'm an author and a book publisher and book publicist and speaker and all of that. And I have aspirations of doing things with the village again because I still work
with them on different things. But, you know, I want to dig a well and I want to help the other artists that are in the, in the Lime Hill village where I was. But yes, traveling and doing all of that stuff makes me feel not invincible, but it makes me feel like I can do that. I can do that. I could try it. Why not? The worst thing I could do is fail. I'm not gonna die.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
I'm just gonna fail whatever, you know, I, I love that and you, you, you mentioned that worst thing.
Jenn Junod
It's not like you're gonna die when I travel and I go in scary cars. I'm like, well, I've lived a good life. I did what I wanted to do. So if I do die today, like it, it does at least help me go. Ok, cool. Like this is why I'm doing, why it's important for me to do. What is my calling? Even though so many of us don't figure it out. And, you know, I've done so many random things.
So I don't want to say that we all know what we wanna do when we're like five. Yeah, being true to ourselves really does give us that like peace even when it's hard. And one thing that I really did want to ask you that I've been just like staring at today is I believe when, during our intro call, I asked you about the blanket on your couch and you said it was from Africa and I, I'm curious because you, your shirt and your head bandana, I'm not sure
exactly how to say what to call it. All have different patterns as well or could you kind of go through where everything's from and the meaning if they have meaning behind it?
Chenoa Daniels
Sure. OK. So I love all things Africa, obviously. And Mexico, side note, I still teach English as a second language courses at the Latin American Association. That is awesome. I do. I'm going tonight. But so this mud cloth is from Ghana, West Africa. I love indigenous things. I love things made by indigenous people. And so this mud cloth is authentic.
I have like three of these and it's made by like basically it's made by hands and it's whole process with inks and dyes from plants and mud and you lay it in the sun, it has to sun bake. So it's very expensive because it takes a long time. So this makes me feel really at home and in a community because I used to see this a lot. But this is from Ghana. My top is from, this is also handmade in Ghana. I have a tailor who's from Liberia, West Africa. And I asked her to make me an outfit by hand and she
did the scarf is from Kenya. I love wearing things on my head because it makes me feel like the queen that I am, which is why I introduced myself and then called you queen because I want to call the queen out of you. Not that other stuff, people call you. It's what you answer to, not what people call you. So you're welcome. So this makes me feel beautiful, makes me hold my head up high. It makes me feel confident and strong and it makes me feel close to the community where I was all the time.
Chenoa Daniels, Jenn Junod
So I'm a queen and that's, I love it.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. And also she's wearing Africa earrings, which are just gorgeous as well. And, thank you for answering all of those because I was just like, I was like, there's so many pretty colors and I love it. now, do you have some words of wisdom for the audience?
Chenoa Daniels
Yeah. What would that be? So, it would be in the form of one of my favorite poems. So I'm gonna read, I'm just gonna say one stanza of it. Do we have time for the whole thing? I don't know.
Jenn Junod
We have time. I'll make time.
Chenoa Daniels
OK. So basically God has given each of us gifts, make it your mission to pour those out. And like you said, we may not know what they are when we're five might take our whole lives to find them, but never stop seeking ever. Because the blessing that you have in you blesses other people. And I truly believe that and it will be tried and tested and the world will try to make you think that you're crazy for doing this.
But you're not, it's something that God put in you. So I'll say the poem and then I'll be it for me. So the poem is called the Queen. Of course, the queen. Yeah. Fist by Celestial Glow. The woman first ride. Freedom knows no boundaries and neither do I. Larena. El Basado por el Brillo, celestial la muso, la Libertad. No Conoce limits NIO Tambo coin and then dear Es Ifra met her, stop met Frierson, Derrien. I mean there in Kazan NGO Kanya Que Zulu.
Oh Wassa Isaoa. OK. In Kule go I go ie le NAMI. You see it does not matter whether you have evolved through English, whether you sway in Spanish, whether you are excited about Afrikaans or if your love for Isizulu is insatiable. My dear. You are still kissed by celestial Glow, the woman. Yes, you woman, your stride. Freedom knows no boundaries and neither do you nor I the queen.
Jenn Junod
Can I clap or am I supposed to snap? Like that was just amazing. I just like that was just, I love that you use Spanish and Zulu and thank you for sharing that with us and as we're wrapping up, we do definitely here at the podcast shit you don't want to talk about. We are welcoming the support from our audience for liking, sharing share with someone that you think would really benefit from the experiences that we're sharing and we are always are welcoming donations
as well. This is something that is will keep the podcast going and all of that will be linked in the episode description. And Shanoa, how does our audience reach out to you?
Chenoa Daniels
So, I'm on Instagram at Chenoa underscore Daniels. My first name is spelled Cheno A underscore Daniels with an S Daniels and on Facebook at Shanoa Murray Daniels. So Shanoa Murray Daniels, and I'm also on Linkedin at Shanoa Murray Daniels.
Jenn Junod
Yay. Thank you. And last, but not least, what is something that you're grateful for?
Chenoa Daniels
So I'm grateful for your purple hair. And no, I'm also very grateful that I have the opportunity to connect cultures because of all the different, just opportunities I've had in life. So I just thank God and I thank you for the opportunity to connect with people, to liaise with cultures. It's such a beautiful thing. When I look at people, I see the beauty of God and I see the beauty in their diversity. So I'm just, I'm excited about diversity and I'm grateful for it.
Jenn Junod
I absolutely love that. And something that I'm grateful for is new experiences. And I, I always hate to admit it because I feel so like, ah, I have listened to a podcast called The Art of Charm back in like 2013 and in 2018, 1 of the hosts went off and started his own podcast called the Jordan Harbinger Show. And I'm looking for work and I reach out to him and I'm just like, yo, dude can, like, I, I'm looking for work.
I would love to be in the podcast realm. Can I help you guys? And he's like, well, we can always make room but like, what is something that you can do? And have you ever even checked out the new show? And I was just like, tele on, I got called out, I got called out hard, you know. And so, and I thanked him for that because I started listening to the show. And the most recent episode that I listened to was about how we can, can become experts yet.
We still can use our beginner mindsets for new experiences to play around with things to not overthink it. And new experiences teach us so much. And I feel like that is so much of what we talked about today and I am just so grateful for that and thank you for being on the show today. Shanoa.
Chenoa Daniels
Thank you, Queen.
Jenn Junod
Bye.
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