S1 E55 Shit2TalkAbout Our Diverse World with Sushmita Kirkland
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Jenn Junod
Hey, Susmita, thank you for joining. Shit. You don't wanna talk about. Please introduce yourself and what shit you wanna talk about it.
Sushmita Kirkland
So nice to be here. I'm Sushmita Kirkland, my pronouncer. She, her, hers. and I am a children's book writer. I'm a speaker and I'm ad I practitioner currently living in Amsterdam Netherlands. Moved here from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm a mommy to two little boys and to a partner.
I have a wonderful partner as well. And the shit I wanna talk about today is all around having uncomfortable maybe or comfortable conversations with our Children In how we can create a diverse and inclusive environments for them and the impact that it has on their psyche.
Jenn Junod
I that had a lot to do with why I connected you when you were on stage at the TED talk, was you talk about having those tough conversations and that's so much of what shit you don't wanna talk about is about is turning it into shit to talk about yet saying that to a little kid is probably not a great place to start.
Sushmita Kirkland
Indeed. Indeed. Yeah. No, it's not. But let's remove that word from the conversation hopefully and just get right into it.
Jenn Junod
I and for those of us that haven't worked in the corporate world or know what de I is? Can you explain that a bit? Sure.
Sushmita Kirkland
It's diversity, inclusion, diversity, equity and inclusion. Sometimes you, you can also refer to as idea which is inclusion, diversity, equity and access because we also wanna include people with accessibility concerns. So yeah, different organizations, different people refer to it in different way. The the most common way is DN I diversity and inclusion. So it's all about creating spaces that consider everyone in those spaces great.
Jenn Junod
And if we have time to wrap back around with that one, I do have a lot of questions there and it is so beautiful yet. I would really like to focus on your children's books and the focus is on Children yet. How did you get into that world of deciding to bring the world to Children?
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. Yeah. Really good question. So I think I touched on this in my TED talk. So the idea came when we were right, when Coronavirus started and we were all sort of quarantined at home in 2020 right? Can't even keep up with how long it's been the never ending pandemic. So 2020 we were at home with our kid who had just started kindergarten. So it's his first sort of school experience which he missed out on because he was sitting in front of a computer in zoom calls for like six hours, which
was horrible. And one day he came to me and he, he started talking about kangaroos and he said, his teacher said that kangaroos can only be found in Australia. And then he said, where is Australia? And I was like, oh my gosh, my son has like, no idea about this world you know, there, there was no exposure to anything outside of the little bubble that we lived in.
We lived in suburb suburban Georgia, just small town. So I said I have to expose him to more, more of the world and show him that it's a big, beautiful world and with so much diversity because I got in, got into learning about the world through books. So books were my first window to the world before I could actually travel. And I said, oh my God, I need to get him excited about books as well.
And other kids excited about the world books. And I looked for books that were very focused on sort of geo cultural diversity. And I couldn't find many books o on diversity. It's out for Children which were with colorful illustrations, catchy writing. So I said, you know what, I'm just gonna start writing and I wrote my first book which is called Alphabets of the World which travels.
So the, the main characters are, are my boys. They travel through the world. So every alphabet is a different country and they learn about the country, they learn about the languages, the foods, the landmarks, the animals, something special about some, a little trivia about the country. So you get to learn a lot about each of these different countries, but you're also learning alphabets.
And it received incredible reviews and people really loved it. And then I wrote another book called Religions of the World where they learn about various religions also to travel. So I'm also writing, five more books, on various other topics which are in the works.
Jenn Junod
I absolutely love the fact that you're doing this and bringing that accessibility to so, so many Children and that your boys are the main characters and showing that representation in a book where I, I know that I related to Indiana Jones and that was how I got into wanting to travel and see things. Yeah, it's as a female, I had a hard time seeing that there weren't very many males that were or that there were only males that many females in these type of roles.
And, and that is to me, almost nothing compared to what other races experience because there is only recently within the last few years, some movement on representation. So I absolutely love that. And thank you. Now, where are you from?
Sushmita Kirkland
I am a global citizen. So ethnically, my dad is from south of India, from a small from the, from the very tip of India, small state called Kerala. And my mo my biological mother is from Trinidad and Tobago. So she is black Portuguese Jewish and my dad is Hindu from south of India. So mixed. I grew up sort of all over the world. spent most of my childhood in a small country called Oman, which is in the Middle East Sultanate of Oman, close to the United Arab Emirates, went to school there.
And then we lived in Singapore for a while and then we lived in Bahrain and then K went to India, lived in India for two years. Right after I graduated, my dad wanted me to be to, to immerse myself in his culture. And that was a shock. I lived in India for a while with my grandmother and initially it was a shock, but it turned out to be the best years of my life because I learned tons from my grandmother who was was a bit of a g if you, you know, I'd love to talk about her.
She was amazing in her own ways. And then, then I moved to Dubai from there, I came to the Netherlands to go to university. And then I lived in the Netherlands for 13 years before I moved to the US.
Jenn Junod, Sushmita Kirkland
So yeah, I've kinda, I've been a gypsy child and, and that is definitely brings it back to why you found it so important to put this in your children's books because that is not an experience many people have.
Jenn Junod
And I now something that I've noticed throughout my travels that I'm curious if you've experienced this as well, of many other countries are very open to travel, even going to the country next to them, especially because at least Europe for example, the countries are much smaller and it's easy, it's easier access where the US kind of lives in a bubble and doesn't realize that there's much else out there.
And how, how does your books, you talk about the alphabets and the food and, your next one with the religions? How, how do we start having these conversations even with other adults of opening our eyes to the rest of the world to then start teaching this to our Children.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. It's a really, you know, something that I remember when I first wrote the book and I was talking to someone from my son's school, a, a fellow parent and they made like this snide comment to me. They said, oh, well, not everyone is not everyone has the privilege of traveling around the world, right? Which is very valid. Like if you live in the US, you're middle class.
I mean, half of your income goes towards healthcare. You know what I mean? The struggle is real. We, we've been there so the ability to travel outside of the country to most folks is, is something that will never happen in their lifetime, right? But within your country, America is a melting pot. I mean, look around you, right? Every, almost every city has a Chinatown, it has little India.
I mean, little Ethiopia go explore like to have the conversation to me with an adult is first of all, we have to, we have to know if there is an interest, right? And most parents, even if they are not personally interested in learning about other cultures, very often, they are more prone to keeping an open mind when it comes to their kids. Because you can see that Children, parents would do move heaven and earth to move to the right school district so their kids can have the right
education, right? And they want them to be exposed to things. They want them to be in the mix, they want them to learn things. So if we can showcase there's so much data, I think I share that in my talk as well. Forgive me, my memory is shot. I don't remember the stats anymore. But there's so many data points where you can see Children who are exposed to diversity at a very early age as they grow.
It's been statistically proven that they show up with more confidence. They are, they easily learn languages, they easily assimilate no matter what environments they are thrown into. Hence success just comes easier for them. They're just able to connect with people because they understand at a very at a very core level, we're all different, but at the same time, we're all the same.
And if you can kind of get that ingrained in a, in a, in a child from a very early age, you're setting them up for success. And I think any parent that's all we want is for our kids to go out there with confidence, with awareness, with knowledge so they can learn and they can just because our world like it or not as much as we like, as much as people like to sort of, you know, form little clicks.
It's, it's only going to become more, more open and more, we're all going to be mixed with other races And I mean, look at, look at our family, it can, it, it, it, it's just, that's just the fact it's going to happen. We're just going to be one big village, right? I, one of my favorite comedians, he says, what did he say in 2050 we're all going to be beige.
So at one point, we're all just going to be blended, right? So it's important, it's important for us to open our children's mind at a very young age and not just to culture to, to differences o other differences, you know, our physical ability to do things, you know, neurodiversity, LGBT T plus people and their their rights. Why is that important?
Just really having those conversations? I know there are going to be people who are saying I don't wanna talk to my kids about that, but the sooner you have a conversation with them, the easier it's going to be for them to have a conversation with someone else or with themselves, right, as they get older. so, yeah. I think it's really being able to, as a parent putting yourself in the shoes of your kid in a way saying, hey, what, what, what, what are the tools that I need for this, this
time and age 2022 and beyond. Right. Because for us it was different. Some of us had to fight to get what we have. we don't have to do the same to our kids. We can give them the access which is so readily available.
Jenn Junod
And a call out just for our listeners as you mentioned, just look at your family and your husband is black. Correct?
Sushmita Kirkland
Yes. Yeah. He's African American and Korean.
Jenn Junod
He's African American and Korean. And something that you mentioned that I think is really important in the, the experience of moving from the US to the Netherlands is how differently your husband and sons have been treated in, in a better way. And it's again, I think it just shows how beautiful it is of using your sons as the main characters of your books.
Yet also the importance of showing other cultures are much more accepting and how having these conversations and showing your Children how diverse we are and that you can have that diversity and inclusion.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah, I yay. Yes.
Jenn Junod
And that diversity, I love how you brought up that it shows up in inclusion in things that may be very different, such as the LGBT Q plus and how to support those communities. And this next question is first gonna be for adults, but then also for Children. I'm, I'm kind of loving this because you have both in your warehouse. Sometimes it can feel like at least for myself and I don't know if this is others how to be supportive and how to be an ally to these other groups.
You could say, I, I'm thinking of it as yes humans as a whole. Yet sometimes it's easier to picture in a corporate world that they really are separate groups and in, at, out of a, of a place that I previously worked, I want to support our LGBT Q plus group and our, our Latinx group and be those allies yet going to their meetings or going to support them.
I'm kind of like the outsider and I think that shows up as well as we talked about. You said, like any, almost every single big city has like a little China or something like that and still going and this discomfort. Yeah. Is what I think a lot of people get stuck at.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. Yeah. It puts them off, right. That discomfort and you feel like that's it. There, there's, there's nothing further than that place of discomfort, but that discomfort is really a starting point. I'm not sure if you had more to add, I didn't want to interrupt it.
Jenn Junod
It it, I think that discomfort is the first place. And then also staying, even if you don't feel like you belong and as like getting your feelings on that as well was the final part.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. So for me, if you are trying to be a good ally to any underrepresented groups, any marginalized, marginalized groups, and you are, let's say you are in the beginning stages of your journey into being an ally. So you're not fully educated on on how these groups are treated what they feel because of that treatment, what resources they have.
You're in the beginning stage of your journey. So the first thing you need to do is really just sit in that discomfort. It's OK, it's ok to feel that right? I have that even as a practitioner in certain spaces when I am not, that's just normal human emotion and feeling because we, we want to be fully adapt, right? We want to be ready going into any conversation, knowing, OK, I know, I know so many books, so many authors to quote, I understand, I know the resources, the groups I can turn
them to. But if you don't know all of that, yes, you're going to be uncomfortable, stay in that space, but ask questions, express that you are uncomfortable or you are unaware and just keep an open mind. So for me, the first thing that I would tell anyone who wants to step into the role of an ally. I like to call someone an accomplice rather than an ally because an accomplice is a person who is going to listen intentionally.
Only to listen and not to respond, right? Just listening, taking in every bit of information they can gather, educate by themselves. You go, you do the work, read, listen, attend, you know, participate, start really immersing yourself and then show up. It's about showing up actively in these spaces with people who need your support. If you are, if you are in any place of privilege, be, be it a person who is able bodied and if I want to support who is not able bodied, it's about me
showing up and helping, right? Showing up with all my heart and passion for that group and once you're there and then it's about being using your voice, using your platform to really broadcast and, and get more people to participate and, and that's how the journey starts, talk to other people who, who may have been in the same place as you and get them educated.
And that's how you, you, you create a movement around building a community of accomplices for, for any underrepresented group. And when it comes to Children again, having the same conversation, I, I talked to my kids about race relations when I lived in the US. when the murder of George Floyd happened. I remember we were watching the news.
My son, he was five at that time. He did not fully understand. I didn't want him watching the video, but I told him, I told him about, you know, what happened? He couldn't believe it. He, he didn't fully grasp it. I don't think he still has grasped what happened. But we, we teach them about American history. We teach them about the very hard race relations in the US.
You know, because it's also part of their lineage and their history, being African American. and having those conversations, I've ta I've talked to them about British colonization of India because that's also part of their lineage, right? And we have very intense conversations. You know, I have many friends who are who are in the LGBT T plus community and they come over for dinner and one of my, one of our friends, they're two men and my son asked, do they have any kids?
And I said they don't have and then he saw them kissing and he said, can boys kiss like that. And I said, yes, of course, they can, they love each other. So it was like mind opening. But, you know, we, we, that's how we have those conversations is education slowly.
Jenn Junod, Sushmita Kirkland
You don't have to give them all of this, especially for kids, but normalize take their curiosity and let them ask questions and then let them lead and you just, you know, engage in that conversation so they can, they can be more aware that really hits home and the fact that you changed it from ally to accomplice, I, I automatically went to an accomplice in a crime and I'm like that actually kind of makes sense because you're in it with them. You're, yes, you're in it.
Sushmita Kirkland
Exactly.
Jenn Junod
And the other part that really made me think was the fact that you, you talked about listening first and doing your own research and something that in an old podcast that I was actually learning about the cast system was the concept of intellectual burden and audience. So that way, you know, that this is a conversation that ches Mia and I had before our call started is I let her know that if I ask a question or make a comment that feel free to shut me down, I may ask why if you're
comfortable, you know, at answering yet. It is not her responsibility even though she's done, you know, in the DN I group. And she has these books and a world Traveler that does not make shash meta responsible for educating me. Yeah. And that is to everyone, your significant other, your Children, you know, it's finding resources for yourself that are already out there, especially now that, you know, for those of us millennials that remember before the internet days that it was
much harder to access this type of con content. And I would say to add to what you were saying is feel it out. You know, people may not be comfortable with answering all these questions and it supporting what you said of staying in the discomfort. And I love the beauty behind how you taught your sons that yes, a man and a man can love each other. And what struggles have you had with teaching your Children these items or seeing maybe like your friends teaching or not teaching their
Children these concepts because they are very like you, you civil rights is a huge concept. And your history with for their black history is also something that specifically the US never taught a lot of it, which we are starting to uncover yet their friends, parents may not be teaching them that.
Sushmita Kirkland
But yeah, so for me, I, like you said, it is once again, not my burden to, to go into anyone's family or go into anyone's parenting. one of the cardinal sins with parenting is telling someone else how to parent their child, right? Or to raise their child. All that I am doing is sharing my experiences of the impact of knowing the world and diversity at a very young age.
What impact did it have on me and what has data shown on the impact that it can have on any growing mind versus not knowing. So I'm really sort of trying to leave conversations very fact based versus feeling based. The feeling is, yes, it's absolutely there without a doubt. Right. But the fact, time and time again shows that the earlier you expose your Children to those conversations, the better it is for them, it helps them fight stereotypes, it helps them stand up to bullies, it
helps them really develop their, their critical thinking. So that is what I always share is this is what I practice for my family. And this is what the data is showing as well. And if someone else strongly feels that no, because of my belief system, because of my religion, there are some things that are just not going to happen in my family that is 1000% you know, their prerogative, you do, you right?
That, that's the, that's the right of a family and a parent. But my role is to always share if someone is in my presence, I am, I always try to share my story. I, I believe in the power of storytelling. I always share my struggles. How did I get from this place to this place? What are the difficulties that I endured? What did I learn and me knowing about that culture, me knowing about those traditions.
How did it help me when I traveled across the world as a, as a woman of color on my own? In, in, in literally building a life on my own. You know, I lost my parents at a very young age. So I literally put myself through school, working five jobs to, to graduate and, and build a life of my own, you know. So I tried to, I, I tried to really connect with people through the power of storytelling. This is, this is how I experienced world and these were the positive experiences because I I had, I had
the good fortune of learning about the world. Why wouldn't you want to teach Children about the world? Right? And something happens when you, when you share stories and people, people kind of, you know, they become less defensive and they're more open to listening. Instead of saying this is what you should be doing. That's when the defenses go up, especially as a parent.
Jenn Junod, Sushmita Kirkland
That's been my experience at least and adding to that is exactly what you said by sharing stories.
Jenn Junod
It also helps us all feel less alone because surprisingly, somebody else probably has gone through it and has a similar experience that we can learn from. And thank you for sharing. I'm not a parent, I'm a dog mom if that counts, but I'm not a parent. So it's, it can be hard for me to imagine that type of life. I have many friends that have Children yet for myself.
I'm like, I honestly thought that if I ever babysat my friends', kids, that I would break them. I'm still working on that. I have nieces and nephews now, from my partner. So I am learning about Children so far. I haven't broken any of them. We're doing good.
Sushmita Kirkland
There you go.
Jenn Junod
something that we talked about, before we started our interview was the school system in the Netherlands is a lot different than the school system in the US. And from that aspect, I can say for myself, I am neurodivergent, I am a DH D bipolar type two and I'm dyslexic. And so me in school just to this day, we don't really get along because my experience with school was learn this, retain the knowledge, put it on a test. That's not how I learned at all. And so I graduated from high school
with a 1.3 GPA which so for all of our worldwide listeners, I know the majority are in the US. That's like the high is like a 4.0 that's like what you're supposed to graduate with. Like that's always the goal like the valedictorians people with the highest scores. And if you have any lower than my 1.3 you probably won't graduate. So how do we start seeing these changes in the US are influencing the schools, our Children are going to and start being a part of this change?
Sushmita Kirkland
Oh my gosh, this is such an incredible question. Thank you for asking that. And and I'm sorry that you did not have the resources you needed when you were growing up. And one of the, one of the issues, one of the problem areas for the US schools to me is it really sort of focuses on the one size fits all principle, right? So it is, it is all based on the areas that, you know, this is at least for public schools.
Obviously, there are private schools, there are schools where if you have the money and the resources you can send your school to the kind of education that your Children need. And there are public schools that cater to newer divergent Children, but it is so hard to get into those schools is what I understand for a lot of for, for a lot of kids and this was not something that was even spoken about openly.
So I don't know, maybe five years ago, 10 years ago, correct me if I'm wrong. It, it's people's mental health and welfare is something traditionally we have just sort of shunned away from. It's not something we openly discuss. It's like the secret handicap that we have to deal with alone in shame and figure out solutions on our own, how are we going to help our kids if we don't even address what's happening?
Right. And I don't have the solution to it, but I think the first of the first and foremost is to actually talk about neurodiversity in schools that Children just because a kid has a DH D it is, it, it is not a deterrent from that child excelling in school. Maybe they just need a different form of education, maybe they just need a different teacher.
They need a different environment, less stimulus. We are not even discussing those issues. We're just throwing everybody in one classroom, same system, same way of grading, same way of assessing and it's not helping anyone. It leaves our, it leaves our teachers drained because they are not equipped to provide the help that they need to provide kids with.
And the kids are left feeling defeated, they, they are left to feel they internalize, they think something is wrong with me, right? And in turn, they bring that home to parents. So it's like this vicious circle that everybody is got in and no one gets out healthy at the end of the day. So how do we address it? One small way is having those conversations.
I think having books around neurodiversity for Children is one great way. I don't know if there are many books out there. I remember seeing one or two, but I don't think my kids, I've spoken to my kids about autism many times. and I exposed them to videos and how the brain works. So having those conversations at home and as well at school, you know, maybe having someone, who studies the subject come and talk to Children about it.
There's so many resources out there but it's about having the, the desire to expose our kids to that, that, that ultimately comes down to that because it makes everyone's life that much easier if we can just have that simple conversation. Because look at you, I mean, I'm sure you can, you can talk for hours about what you you went through. And I have many friends who actually have di have been diagnosed in their adult life, like in their thirties, being diagnosed with a DH D or being
on the spectrum and their entire life, they've struggled not having the language, not having the words to express what they felt. Can you imagine that? Like, not knowing what is going on in your brain and you have no one to talk to so organizations and, and people who do work in this space, like, I'm so glad I work for an organization which has a dedicated employee resource group for neurodivergent employees.
There are, I mean, they talk to each other, they're building a, a tribe in a way to support each other. How credible is that? Like, imagine Children having that, you know, like a group where they can talk and where the parents can talk and share resources with each other. That's, that's really like having those conversations, exposing our kids to OK. This, this doesn't make you, this doesn't deter you from anything you want to do in life. We're just gonna have to change the
parameters a little bit for you so you can excel. And, and I think that makes the parents' life easier. The children's will pride and obviously our school system is, at least in the US, it's much, much needs to change. And, yeah, I think little little changes like us having these conversations, more people being exposed to it. having books, resources, videos. That's a start. It's, it's, it's a marathon. It, it will not be overnight, but we have to start somewhere.
Jenn Junod, Sushmita Kirkland
I absolutely, absolutely agree.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for really calling out a lot of what you said, like there's so many that I was like, I need snap or something because you were hitting on so many good points. And I know you mentioned about it's only been probably the last five or 10 years that there's been a lot of research about neurodiversity in schools. And among that research was how a DH D shows up in women or girls compared to boys.
And it does show up differently. So that's why so many women in their late twenties to late thirties were not diagnosed until they were adults. And I know for myself that it was a lot of learning different way that there are different ways of learning. And if I could say, you know, if I was my own parent. That sounds kind of weird saying that out loud.
But realizing that I have a really hard time with pronunciation because I never learned how to sound out words or more or less, I mix up the letters. So because of that, I never learned how to sound out words. And it really hinders the fact of when I'm trying to pronounce somebody's name, I'm horrible at it. So that's why I asked so many times because we do have, there's so many beautiful names in the world yet.
One thing that I can say from my own experience, and I really want to call this out for our listeners for themselves, but also to be there for their Children is accepting it and observing it and letting other people know like what you said with your work that you're building a neurodivergent tribe of when I've told my bosses, hey, I'm a DH D, I'm bipolar type two.
I have dyslexia. I also have depression and anxiety. I have a whole gamut of things. PTSE, you know, let's just throw it in there, it'll be fun. And I bipolar type two is another one that I have to explain because it's not the same as bipolar type one and being able to tell my boss to tell my coworkers, hey, you may see me be the most productive in one day than you have in the entire week and I'm doing a week's worth of stuff in that one day because that's a lot that happens with bipolar type
two is it's like a sprint of activity that is like the most activity you can do and the most productive and then it goes into a depression that can show up as like sleepiness or full depression. And those are things that I need to take care of myself. I mentioned those because as parents, I feel like giving your Children that space and helping them learn about it.
Like audio books are a lot easier for me than real books or somebody reading out loud to me or a conversation rather than a textbook. And I love that we are slowly starting to change and we're also seeing those changes in the rest of the world, like you mentioned in the Netherlands, it's play based.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yes.
Jenn Junod
Could you explain to us what that means?
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. So I remember when we were in the US, my son was going to a public charter school and before that he was in just a regular public school in the, in the, in the city that we lived in and they have these report cards where they, where they have literally like, I don't know, 25 things listed, right? So by the time he went from kindergarten to first grade, he should have hit these 25 items at like a 3.5 average scale.
So if he hasn't, he's behind the curve, right? He is a kindergartener, right? Like wrap your head around it. He is fine. The pressure that a child feels in that sort of environment. Whereas here when we started, they said, yeah, you know, we have guidelines for kids. We have kids who are sort of advanced in reading and writing and math. And then there are Children who are not that much advanced, they don't stay behind, they say they're not that much advanced.
So our goal is to you to ask our advanced writers and readers to kind of buddy up with those who need a little bit of help. So they really kind of partner them with other kids and create a sense of community for them so they can work together instead of the teacher sitting with them and kind of like drilling down information to them. And then they really use a lot of, they create a lot of projects and a lot of like fun music, dance based activities and they take them on field trips and they
spend a lot of time outside. My son is outside like three times a day during school and they explore, they go to the woods, they collect things and count and add and multiply using rocks and shrubs. And I mean, for a kid that's heaven, right? Because you're not sitting in a room, you know, II I remember when he was a kindergartner, they said, oh, he cannot sit still. He's constantly moving. I'm like, he is pied. How can you sit in the same place for six hours?
Jenn Junod
I'm like, I've already done moving around while we've been on there.
Sushmita Kirkland
It's impossible for a five year old to do that. Right. So, here they really understand that. So they get that movement going. They, even within the classroom, they have like several stations where they kind of like, rotate out. So they're not sitting in one desk and one chair and the same thing for an hour. So it keeps them engaged. It keeps them sort of guessing what's gonna happen.
and it's very fun and casual and he is just thriving. I mean, he used to hate going to school here. It's just like Sunday night. He's getting his things ready, he's ready to go. so, yeah, something in this sort of play based learning system seems to work. for, I, I, yeah, for him at least and for, for a lot of kids, I would assume because it's just, there's not that added pressure of, like, you have to meet a certain grade or a certain point.
Right. and you have to sit still and listen all the time without talking. I mean, come on. So it's, it just seems to work and, and I, and I wish that it would, it would be something that more, schools can incorporate even in the US. And the public school system, which I think in general needs an overhaul cause it's been the same forever. There hasn't been much of an innovation anywhere to create changes for people, for young Children who come in different, different packages.
They are not all the same, you know, and let's not put them all in the same category. Let's create. Let's le let's create unique like we do that in companies, right? We create unique products, unique solutions for different clients. So why not? And I mean, that's a bigger question. We obviously need the money from the government to pour into the public schools. We do have them, we just have to rout them, I guess to, to the schools which desperately need it.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I love how you mentioned about that. The school makes kind of like that buddy system of for advanced kids helping not as advanced kids. And from what I picture and I've seen this in some companies as well as in some topics we've had on the podcast is you may some a kid may need help on one subject yet. They may be helping another kid on a different subject because it's all that give and take. And it also teaches us to be able to receive help without shame and give help without shame.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah, totally.
Jenn Junod
I absolutely love that fact. And I, I do hope that this episode really relates and opens up parents eyes because they're going to be the ones listening or watching this. their Children probably are not old enough yet, but maybe more. But, yeah. Is there anything that you wanted to cover that we didn't cover today?
Sushmita Kirkland
not really. I, I just, I just would love for folks. This doesn't even apply to just parents. This applies to, to young adults to, to, you know, teenagers, to even, you know, people in their twenties, early twenties. Thank God the, the gene, what do you call them? Gen Z? Gen Z are I, I really think it's a generation that is going to cause a major shift in how we think is as humanity.
And thank God for that. And it's only going to trickle down in my opinion, but we can just continue to have these conversations, we can continue, you know, as aunts as, as, as babysitter, as as godmothers, godfathers, God aunties. These are all opportunities, right? These are all opportunities to expose the little humans in your life to, to things that they may not be privy to otherwise, right?
If you are, if you're a queer person and you have a godson expose them to, you know, the struggles, you know, the the the constant oppression you still in the state of Florida, you can't even say the word gay, right? How can you live in a country where your humanity is regularly on the chopping board. Yeah, it cannot happen. And the only way that can change is we start having these conversations no matter how hard they are from a very young age and really causing that disruption in how
Children think and young adults think, because they are really the future. Like if, if, if they are, if they are not thinking ahead, I mean, I don't know. Iii, I feel very, I feel very disheartening for humanity in general. But every opportunity you have, have those conversations, have conversations about our history because if we don't know where we came from, we don't know where we're going.
So it's important to connect those dots. Continue, continue to show up as an accomplice wherever, whenever every opportunity and talk, talk, talk, educate. If you, if you have the tools, if you don't seek them out. So there's so many ways tiktok, I mean, great way to learn about amazing things. I'm, I'm older to be on tiktok, but I love, I love learning, I learn every day through tiktok.
So use the mediums that appeal to you if you're not a book person. If you know, if audio audio is a great medium, listen to podcasts like yours. So yeah, that's, that's just just please keep talking, please keep engaging.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that. And, and that is something that for this podcast and courses coming out in the future is how to change the conversation from shit you don't want to talk about into shit to talk about because now our focus is yes as adults because we influence our Children. And I love the fact that you start with Children and give them resources to as they grow up because we need to as a society, we need to work on both.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah. 100%.
Jenn Junod
I find that I feel like today's term is, I find that so beautiful, but it is, it is. And it's all a group effort and also showing how important one voice can influence and change and everyone's voice needs to be heard just as you were saying about sharing our stories, connects us going back to the way beginning.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yes. Yeah.
Jenn Junod
Is there any words of wisdom that you would wanna leave our audience with?
Sushmita Kirkland
Oh, that's the best. The one thing that I always go back to is what I opened the podcast with which is listen to Lauren and not to respond. There is so much power when we just 100% surrender to the moment we're in. and listen to every word that's coming out of the mouth of the person in front of us, which is why you are such a great podcaster, right?
You really listen and you're able to dig deeper into the conversation. So each and every one of us are able to leave our egos behind and just listen you learn so much more about others when you just, you don't always have to have a response. It's OK. Listen.
Jenn Junod
No, I don't wanna respond.
Sushmita Kirkland
Please do.
Jenn Junod
And, and thank you for that. It is. And I do want to say it to our listeners. It is sometimes easier said than done because we all start to get thoughts while we're listening. That is natural human behavior. It's listening and going. OK, let me think about this and not just respond or not be defensive.
recapping what they said, hey, if I understand what you said, is this what you meant and really letting it sink in is again, sometimes easier said than done yet. One of the most powerful ways to communicate.
Sushmita Kirkland
Totally because we are sadly in the, in the council culture where we feel like we have to be on our defenses all the time. And if someone says something to us, we immediately wanna respond because we're like, we're afraid there's going to be assumptions made about us, but it's OK, maybe there are things you don't know, really think about what you've heard process and then articulate. and that is like you said, an incredibly powerful tool for any communication.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. And yeah, all right listeners, shout out of, please follow, support, like share the youtube, subscribe. And if you're really loving the podcast, please donate even like $2 helps to be able to keep the podcast going and Susmita, how does our audience reach out to you?
Sushmita Kirkland
Yeah, so I am on linkedin. So you can find me Sushmita Kirkland on linkedin. You can find me on Instagram. I'm not big on the socials y'all. So sorry. I'm only on Instagram. So you can find me Sush Kirk at Sus Krk on Instagram. You can follow my journey. It is a private account but once if you request access, I would grant you access because I do post a
lot of stuff about my kids. and I will be launching a youtube channel very soon building some content. So I will share that on my Instagram as well once it's available. Yay.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I love that. What can you like? Give us a sneak peek of what your youtube is gonna be about.
Sushmita Kirkland
It is going to be really educational around the DE I space but focus on Children. So, yeah, that's all I can tell you.
Jenn Junod
All right, and your ted talk will be linked into the show notes. So everyone will be able to check it out and share that as well. And last but not least, what is something that you're grateful for?
Sushmita Kirkland
Oh my gosh, grateful for gosh, just seeing another day. I mean, how many of us can say that? Right? I'm just grateful man. I, I like my journey through life wasn't an easy one, but I'm just every single day. I'm just grateful. Like, what an incredible life that I do have and, you know, being able to see and hear and walk. Oh, I'm just filled with gratitude. So many things I can, I can make a whole list, but I'm just grateful to be able to see another day life is awesome.
Jenn Junod
Yeah.
Jenn Junod, Sushmita Kirkland
It's sometimes hard to, sometimes hard, but it's still awful.
Sushmita Kirkland
Yes.
Jenn Junod
And to realize how beautiful it is, even though so many of us take that for granted. And I would say that I am grateful for the struggles that I have had in the fact that they have taught me how to be an active listener and how to be more empathetic and wanting to learn.
Because my curiosity is insatiable. I always have so many curiosity questions which makes it a little difficult on having good timing on the podcast. Like I just wanna ask all the questions and thank you Susmita for being on the podcast today and talk soon.
Sushmita Kirkland
Thank you so much, Jen. Talk to you soon. Bye bye.
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