S1 E41 Shit2TalkAbout Parent Empowerment with Joanne Light
Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! Jenn Junod
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It's shit to talk about that shit. The number two talk about links are in the episode description. Hey, Joanne, thank you for joining. Shit. You don't want to talk about. What shit do you not wanna talk about that? We're changing to the stigma to shit to talk about today.
Joanne Light
Well, the shit that nobody wants to talk about is usually to do with mental health, our emotions and how we should present ourselves in in, in our culture and society. And I think that that has led to a lot of, I feel like we're, we're all entering a crisis of connection. We just are not connecting with one another. So that's, that's a lot of shit because Jen I think unless we really connect and unders try to empathize and understand one another.
It's just not gonna happen. And the division and the, and the distrust and the misinformation and fear just blossoms and balloons. So I mostly talk to parents about their teenagers and the fears parents have about their teens and the stereotypes. But I think there's a larger cultural pile of shit that we're all dealing with Frank.
Jenn Junod
I agree. I agree and thank you for bringing that up because I, as we talk about these items, a big part of it is that distrust and that building empathy in the conversation. And that's a big reason why this episode or this podcast is based on conversation instead of just like a fact, like I don't send to our listeners as a heads up. I do not send any questions over to our guests beforehand. We do a quick 15 minute call about a month ahead of time.
A recap. Right. Before we record and then we kind of just go and have a conversation because that's what builds trust so we can dig into these really, some of them really shitty topics and that's how we build that trust with each other. Now, Joanne, tell us a bit about what your current work and then we'll, we'll go backwards from there.
Joanne Light
Well, my current work is coaching parents mostly of queens and teens. I like to do groups when I can get a group together. I feel that that really reinforces positive change among parents. But II, I do 1 to 1 and love that as well. And I really, really like to talk to groups of parents and I do that often just as many opportunities as I can in schools or community centers. That's been tough during pandemic. But I love to do that because I just feel like I can offer for nothing.
which is what I usually do. lots of insights or answer questions and provide support for parents. Parenting is tough. I mean, it's really, really hard and it's been so hard in the last like almost two years. It's been really, really difficult to make decisions and to make choices that you feel comfortable with for, for your Children. So I think that's what I mostly have been doing now. But I can, if you want, I can go back how I sort of got here.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And I think that a big part before we go into that before COVID and you started, coaching in, 2016, I believe you said.
Joanne Light
yeah, around then I did a certification program. I, started to work with a number of coaches. Every coach needs a coach. I tried a couple of different coaches. I learned something from each of them. And yeah, then try to build a practice. Now, that's not easy being an entrepreneur, talk about shit. It's very difficult to really start your own business and have it be I think openly and honestly successful. I don't, I'm not salesy, I'm not trying to pull something off and sell a
product that it, it, you, you can't solve your parenting problems in in a quick fix. So if you're really committed, then you, you come and we can you get to the root of what's working on you. I mean, there are quick fixes, there are strategies I can give tips and that, that helps. But it's, it's hard to get people to really commit to working on themselves and really a lot of our parenting fears and frustrations and difficulties come from within.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I could only imagine. And on, on the entrepreneur side of things, this, this podcast is my passion project. It is something that I love to do and yet it is so expensive per month that I don't even, I'm like, I've never pictured this to ha having a salary for myself. I'm like, this is my side project. This is my side gig just because I really feel like this is what people need to hear and know about and we need to talk about this shit.
And so what I've had to do is set up a Patreon and a donations because I can't afford to keep this going long term. So, and that's something that I'm learning is I never, I didn't want to be an entrepreneur in this, but I do have to solely start that way because if I wanna continue the content, I can't, that's so expensive, right?
Joanne Light
I mean, so that is just joining the, the, the calendar, the scheduling, the, the coaching that there's so many pieces that all the software every day, there's a new piece of software that I eat.
Jenn Junod
So expensive software. Yes, I 100% agree. Now, back in 2016, 2017 were basically before COVID. We'll go pre 2020. Were you going in? And you said that you were doing groups and in schools, were you doing like, you know, going into a gym and talking to the entire school or whatever, trying to hit the parents?
Joanne Light
cause I, I love working with kids. Jen, I, I taught high school for when I first finished school and I loved high school kids. I think teenagers are terrific. They can be so insightful and so thoughtful and they have these brains that are just exploding with energy and that's why they take crazy risks because they're going through so many both hormonal and brain function changes.
and their prefrontal cortexes are not quite there cause really it's so it's a time of huge change. So I love working with the kids, but I decided that really to get help for these kids. I mean, you need to hit their teachers and most importantly their parents because their parents need to nourish their, their honesty, their emotions dealing with the, I mean, the, the yelling, the nagging, that kind of tension that everyone sort of jokes about with their teenage, you know, almost
jokes about with their teenage kids, but which causes so much stress and anxiety and unhappiness. is it starts with the parent you really have to dig sort of in and say, gee my kids never listen to me. My kids really are not listening, but if you dig a little deeper and go to the root of it, maybe you grew up never being listened to. So that triggers that immediately triggers my kids don't listen and it brings up your stuff and you react as opposed to really responding to your child and
what he or she is going through. Now. I don't know that question. how I got to the parents because I realized, as much as I love the kids and I'd love, I liked working with kids. I, I spent 30 years in administration and counseling at a, at a college. So I, I dealt with students all the time. So I like the kids, but I realized that my love for the kids wasn't gonna easily you know, change what was necessarily happening for them.
So the parents I felt were, were key and I knew as a parent that you suffer, it's not easy. I can tell everybody what they should do and how they should feel and what they can do. But wow, it's tough when it's your own. I mean, I'm, I'm a great, great counselor. I can intuit your feelings and help you. But when it came to my own, I got kind of paralyzed.
Jenn Junod
So, yeah, and, and that's something that you mentioned throughout a bit earlier about that parents end up having to deal with their own shit like it, it resurfaces. And in a previous episode, I believe it was episode six. We talk about generational trauma and that by working on ourselves that we can stop that generational trauma because we don't always realize how much generations back go,
these emotions, these feelings, these way, the way that we deal with things is not always how we, we intuitively deal with it. It was the way we were taught to deal with it.
Joanne Light
Exactly. I mean, we, my genera. it's generational patterns as well. so whether you had serious trauma, or what we might consider less trauma. But I mean, I know I grew up and my parents, we didn't talk about feelings. We talked politics, maybe we talked about the weather, we talked about our dreams and our goals, but that's just very surface.
If I came home all upset and worried, the response is worry, don't worry about that. It everything's fine. worry and really feeling vulnerable was not accepted. And of course, I'm old. So in my generation, we were taught to grow up and be, you know, there was that objectification of women which frankly is not gone and the society is still, you know, punishes men who are emotionally vulnerable and feeling and rewards women who and girls are taught to care about who looks at them and
how they look at them and what they look like. But that was very important and to grow up and get married and have a mate and a, you know, and live your life that way. But that, that is just one example. But all everybody, even young parents today you cannot dismiss and you, you tend to parrot how you were parented. And I think that's, that's often very difficult for parents to who, you know, they may say out loud.
I, I I'm not gonna do it that way. I don't wanna do, make the same mistakes as my parents, but you find yourself just sort of unconsciously repeating some of that behavior. So it is a generational pattern and it, it's hard to admit that that's true. And it's harder to work on it and be willing to work on it and then to be willing to pay somebody to help you work on it.
But I si highly advise that people do that be through a coach or a therapist, you will be relieved of so much anxiety when you understand really the root where you're coming from as well. And your kid 100% they'll be very grateful, they'll be very grateful.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And that's something that I know for myself. Something that I've talked about on many episodes is therapy. 100% like that's something that I'm going through. and to your point about men's mental health and men showing that they're vulnerable. That is something that this podcast is definitely really focusing on.
I know you mentioned about it being generational and I can definitely see that in the fact that growing up, the only thing that my dad cared about is that I go to college to get my Mrs and for our listeners, an Mrs is becoming a wife, a Mrs.
Joanne Light
An M RSI got that.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And that is not something that I ever wanted to do. It was not something. I definitely feel that marriage is important and it, in the fact that, you know, if that's what you're, you want to do. It's not something that I wanted to do yet. I got married when I was 20 divorced when I was 22. And I think a lot of it was because I felt pressured to get married very young, to have kids, very young.
that was also part of a religious aspect. That was very, it, and I mentioned these, it, it was a huge influence because for a lot of people that pressure is can cause us to have kids so early. And yes, it's changed now where a lot of parents aren't having kids until their thirties or forties. Yet. There's so many, I even say they're babies. I'm 33 now and when a 20 year old is having kids or even younger than that.
But it's, it's, I feel like it's 10 times harder for them because they're still figuring their life out and to get back to your parental coaching. How did you end up getting into this? Like you mentioned the kids and you mentioned being a, a high school teacher and then a college counselor. How did you end up here and starting your own practice?
Joanne Light
Well, if it, I think II I had retired around 2015 from working full time for almost 32 years. So I took a breath and said, hmm, so I was volunteering a lot and I was reading a lot. I love to read. and we did some traveling and then I realized that it just made sense for me to do something to give, to giving back. It's just, it was all about giving back.
So I'm not doing this in order to make a huge living and put food on the table. Fortunate, I'm very grateful. I'm very fortunate that is really not what I need to be doing now. I'm more doing it because I feel like it, it, it makes me feel good. I feel like if I can help a few people, that's great. So I just, I, I realized, I mean, I had, I have a graduate degree, I have doctorate in education and counseling.
So it sort of felt silly that I needed more certifications, but I got certified in co in life coaching and I got certified in emotional intelligence training, which was great. It was fun. I never ever really got any kind of degree in marketing so or sales. So I'm not, that is not my niche but you know, it's, it's part of, it's part of the whole picture. But that II, I started out doing life coaching and I was doing a lot of career counseling and people who wanted to change careers or
retiring and transitioning and that was fine. But I had done a lot of that already. So this felt like, man, I've been through some shit with my own kids. I really understand the pain parents feel. Maybe I can make a difference there. So that's kind of, I, I made a switch and then the pandemic hit. So it, it has been an interesting, an interesting journey.
Jenn Junod
I bet. I, I know. And if my mother does listen to this episode, she, she told me, even beforehand, we came to the agreement, I'm like, ma you don't have to listen to every episode because we definitely don't always see eye to eye yet. She is my best friend now. Like, I honestly might, I don't know what I would do without my mom yet. I know that when I was a teenager, I was to say the least a very, very, very, very difficult teenager and my mother was going through menopause while I was in my
teenage years, which added to the, the difficulty and I, I myself do not have Children. That is, that is something that, I actually have to have a hysterectomy next year. And, I do hope that one day, my partner and I can adopt that is at least the game plan in 5 to 10 years. Yeah, I can see with so many of my friends, like my two best friends, they've had kids and I can see how hard it is for them.
It, it is a completely different, it's a complete life change and having to think of another human that relies on you yet not having your own space to be able to heal and work on things. And by, I can only imagine by the time they get become teenagers, what was your experience with all of this, especially you, mentioned that you went through some shit with your own kids.
Joanne Light
Yeah, I, I I'm happy to tell you that story. I, and oddly enough, back in 1982 when I did my dissertation, Jen, I interviewed women who in that age. So these are, the early eighties were choosing to work, to have a, a high powered career and to have Children. And at that time, there weren't hundreds and hundreds of women out there doing that. And it was very interesting to me because the, the conclusion I came to, there were a lot of things and I won't go into it.
But one of them was, it was about self that in order to balance oneself, in order to feel complete, they felt they needed to do both. Now, these were very, very intelligent, but also very fortunate women who weren't going to work because they had to, they had mates who were earning a good living. And it was very interesting to me to see how the decision.
I, I really focused on how women make decisions. And it's different than the way at that time, men were making decisions. Women are more relational, they're all about relationships and connection. But I think what the research has shown in the me in the years since is that young boy, particularly, Tween boys. They feel the need for good friends, close friends, someone they can tell their secrets to someone they can share everything with.
And then all of a sudden they become 17 or s, you know, 16.5, 17 and 18. And that's frowned upon, then they're worried about being seen as gay. So it's, it's a cultural societal thing that imposes so much, which goes back to I think what we were talking about earlier. But I have, three adult Children. My two girls when they were teens, each had their set of issues.
my oldest was a very, almost non risks taking quiet child who seemed happy did her thing and had good friends and she hit high school and everything fell apart. and my approach was what I think parents do. Oh no. You know, she's becoming a teenager. She's falling in with quote the wrong crowd and she did, she fell in with a whole kind of different crowd than she was usually hanging out with.
Was smoking too much weed was experimenting with drugs and with risk taking, by, I don't know so much about the sex cause you gotta have those hard conversations. We have had a conversation about sex. But what she actually was doing, I don't think I ever was brave enough to really ask. I made some assumptions, but she became more and more anxious.
She was skipping classes and it, it, it was just a paralyzing kind of situation. We tried to get her to go into therapy. We provided programs for her and she, she followed along, but inside her was something holding her back from really participating. So it took a long time and she, to this day is an anxious young woman. but she's so much better w beyond teenage years, I wanna talk about their twenties.
It's not like all of a sudden they're 20. And as you point out everything is cool. It's, it's, you know, parents say, oh when they're 18, they'll be gone, it'll be fine. But that the early twenties are very difficult and those were, the years that we had, Alex became, got diagnosed, she had a, a personality disorder and anxiety and a lot of the things her impul impulsivity and her anger were were, you know, part of her mental illness and mental mental illness.
It's a little better now, but this was almost 20 years ago. There's a lot of stigma and there was a lot of stuff that was unknown and for a parent that is just so scary cause you're not, you're not meeting the expectations that the culture puts on you to raise, you know, competent, confident and resilient kids, which is the goal. That's what your goal should be as a parent.
So that, that was quite a setback and it was, very painful and very important for parents out there today, Jen, is that when one child is having issues and you're so focused and trying and, and fearful about that one child, sometimes you sort of don't really see everything going on if there are siblings or so. For some people, it's a rela your, your spousal relationship.
I've seen that happen where you have a sick child and, and, and it really affects the whole relationship. We were very fortunate. We, we grew together and, and saw through all these different events but parenting teens when they are going through changes or, or they're, I mean, I think one in six kids has mental illness. It's, it's pretty common and the suicide rate be from the age of 10 to 24 year olds is the second highest cause of death in this, in this country.
So neglecting people's mental and physical well being is they actually their mental well-being, which we, we focus too much on their physical well-being and, and don't always see, I think it's changing. I, I feel better about it. I think that shit is getting, you know, dispersed a little bit but, but it's hard and it's so hard for parents who have AAA child with mental health issues. It's not easy to talk about even now.
And then it was, you know, friends would say to me, how how's your daughter? But if I actually went and told them exactly how I was feeling, they backed off it unless you, you, if you don't get it, it's very hard to empathize and people don't have not, everybody has emotional intelligence where they care that they can regulate their own emotions and their hysteria to, to, you know, to really listen and be empathetic.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
And my middle daughter, who is a perfectionist real quick before we go to your middle daughter.
Jenn Junod
What is as a parent? What were some things that you needed to be able to support your daughter? And how could your friends have supported you?
Joanne Light
I had, I had one friend who really was very supportive, but even the people who loved me and my family, the most had a very hard time chatting about it. Some, some did. So I went to the people who could support me. But the one of the best things we did, my husband and I and my husband and I always talked and tried to communicate about this. We unfortunately were too bent on trying to fix it as opposed to trying to understand it.
You know, we all as parents jump in and fix. But one thing we did do is contact through some of the therapy we had researched, we found a parent support group and we went to this group at mclean Hospital here in Boston, Massachusetts, which is a famous psychiatric hospital and this woman who led this group with about five sets of parents who all had Children suffering with the, in the same, with the same disorder.
Wow, that really changed everything because we realized that. Wow, you know, you think when you're going through something that nobody, no, but we're all alone, no one will get this. It's unbelievable what she's doing. And when you hear other parents who actually told stories that were far worse than ours, it I mean, I hate to say it, it was a little comforting just to know that you're not alone.
And that's one thing I try to do in my practice is make parents understand they're, they're not alone in their fears and that, you know, sharing them is, is very useful and supportive. So that, that was one of the things that really helped us was finding support and reaching out for help. It's, it's actually brave I think to ask for help. People think asking for help means I'm weak.
Jenn Junod
I, I don't see it that way and how like if, especially because I don't have kids. If one of my friends are having a hard time with their Children, how do I support them? other than like empathy, which I can only give so much. I know that my, the first, the first friend that had kids, I got so nervous and didn't know what to say or do I stopped talking to her for two years. Not, definitely not a cool thing.
Like luckily we are friends again. We are very close. I, I am learning how to basically be an auntie, because I've never really been around kids and yet I wish so much. I knew how to support her going through parenthood, going through, postpartum, just learning about her kids. And, you know, if they end up having mental illnesses, how do I show up for her?
Joanne Light
Well, that, that's what you do is show up. Even if you, if you feel like you're not saying the right thing, that's ok if you're showing up and being curious, asking questions and I think if you're honest and say, look, you know, I, I just wanna help w what, what did you feel about that particular incident? Tell me something that happened with your child today and that upset you listen carefully. Don't, don't make a lot of suggestions.
I mean, I tell parents advising is not a good idea that the best thing you can do is listen without judgment and make that clear that that's what you are trying to do as a friend. And yes, you're right. Your empathy is, is wonderful but you can't, you, you haven't been in her shoes so you can't be totally empathic, but you can say things like, wow, that sounds really hard
Jenn Junod
and thank you for that.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
And is there anything I can do to help.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah, I really appreciate that because there's so many changes with society now that many people aren't having kids yet. Those around us are having kids that I think that'll definitely be very beneficial to, to look at that. And now while all of this is going on with your eldest, what was going on with your, other daughter?
Joanne Light
Right. Well, she, I think, saw what was happening with her sister. So she got to high school and was perfect in every way, had all the wonderful friends, a perfect boyfriend, all of it, and was popular and all the other girls looked up to her. The only problem was she wasn't eating. I think Emily felt, that she could do all these things but that, the one thing could, she could control, it's a control issue was what she was eating and not eating and how she looked.
and it became a, a pretty serious problem and by the time she was a sophomore in college she called from the University of Pennsylvania where she was still doing all that, getting A's and all of the things to gain total approval. I can't do this anymore so she was ready and we, she went into a, an eating disorder program and by the way, that was, I'm trying to think how many years ago, like 2004 or five and I, there were not a ton of programs.
we did a lot of research nowadays. There are much better opportunities so parents need to keep aware of, cause eating disorders are pretty common and pretty rampant. And I think sometimes parents unknowingly, enco almost encouraging because, you know, all the moms that go to the gym all day and worry about what they look like and, there's too much pressure that way, but she went through a program and, and she's fine, she's great.
but it was hard, it was hard. And my son, the youngest, you know, he, he, he's grown up with a lot of issues around him and has his own set of an anxious behavior. Anxiety is contagious. I mean, I grew up in a household that I, I don't know about yours, but there was a lot of anxiety and worry some over some very legitimate reasons. My father's health money, all kinds of things.
But you absorb that anxiety and much as I tried, as I mentioned earlier, I'm not gonna make the same mistakes. Your anxiety is your anxiety and it, it manifests itself. So, yeah, there were some, we had some rough years and one thing I would say is that I think we got, I got so paralyzed and so fearful and I think parents do that, that I didn't notice all the good things that were going on.
So it's very important to stop and notice what's going well, because there were things regardless of what their issues were, that were good that II I needed to be grateful for. So you just need to keep those connections and we're all very close. As you said, as you are with your mother, my daughter, that my oldest daughter, she is totally dependent on chatting with me and talking to me and needing, still needing me.
I mean, it be nice if she didn't anymore, But still, I mean, I think we may all maintain connections. Connection is really the key in so many areas of life. Not only your parenting, your, as you see, your friendships connection is important and the huge disconnect that's happening now is a crisis.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
I, I think it's a crisis now.
Jenn Junod
What was it like when you found out that your first daughter had personality disorders, your second daughter had eating disorders, your son struggling with what he has going on. How do you balance it? And how was that when you first found out as a parent? Is that like a sense of failure or fear? Or could you go a bit more about that initial feeling?
Joanne Light
I mean, when you weren't in denial like, OK, this is just a passing phase, you then did feel a lot of guilt because you, you, you first of all, there's shame, you're worried about what people are gonna think of you. They're gonna say, wow, you know, she's not good enough. She's a terrible parent. We had things that made us feel that way from the community you feel like, oh, you know, so it's, it's kind of a shit show.
It really, it, it's not fun at all and it makes you feel both guilty and definitely a sense of failure, which we worked our way through and realized that things are what they are. And mental health is, is not usually totally driven by the the environment you're in. There's this wiring and in at least in the case of my older daughter, there's just some kind of wiring that is crossed.
It's a chemical imbalance but it does, it makes you feel crappy, really crappy like and not feeling very good about yourself. I was working full time most of the time. So I think that was a great distraction because I was really focused on work as well and there's just so much you can do. But that paralyzing fear, I think that fear is, is the one thing that i it prevents you from doing everything correctly or appropriately.
So when you try to, as I said, look for what's going well and replace some of the fear with trust that things will change or you can help your daughter change and she has to make the change because the most important thing when your kids get to be older teens and young adults and you can't be totally responsible for anything, everything anymore.
You just can't, you have to, people have to wanna make change. And that's true of the, of the parents that I see the ones who are willing to commit to making change, will be, I think much calmer than those who just sort of, kind of block it out or, or don't attend to all that. I don't know if that answers your question, Jen.
Jenn Junod
It, it, it does, it does and it does lead me to another question of, but I, I'm understanding the paralyzing fear of initially finding out about a child going through something very traumatic or difficult. Yeah. to turn it on its wheels a bit. There are teenagers and young adults and, that have quite the patterns we'll go with, of destructive patterns and I've seen with my own friends growing up, experiences I've had where parents get so fed up that they just want to give up.
And how would you suggest parents get through that because you can go from paralyzing fear to just the other spectrum of like, you know, get out, go away. Like I'm just gonna disassociate. How do you go from, instead of like one spectrum of fear and paralyzed to, you know, the flight mode?
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
well, how do you, what fear makes you do?
Joanne Light
You know? Yeah.
Jenn Junod
have you running away from the tiger? Yeah, exactly.
Joanne Light
and, I'm sure I did a little of that. I mean, there were, there were times when your fear just makes you wanna give up. we didn't give up, you know, periodically we had a per, a little time where we'd say, look, if she doesn't, if she's not willing to go into rehab, we're not gonna pay for everything anymore. And it, that maybe was, maybe that was the best thing that we did at that point because she acquiesced at that point.
But I think, I think it's very easy. And you're gonna pardon my French. But when you get to a point where your fear is overwhelming and you, you're not taking care of yourself and you're anxious all the time. There is a part of you that says fuck it. I it's just nothing more I can do. And you do go into giving up or denial mode a little bit and that gets mixed in I think for me, it got mixed in.
It was not the overarching response. It didn't last very long but you definitely feel that way like w why me, you know that victim thing? Why did this happen to me? What did I do? I mean, I would look out and see parents who were doing crazy, terrible stuff and their kids seemed fine. That always made me so angry like that's not fair, but you can't look at it that way because you have to be self-aware and know how you, how you're, how you're dealing and what's happening inside you.
After a while II, I knew it didn't matter. I mean, I could be angry and jealous or whatever that so and so's daughter is, you know, doing well and moving on and my, my daughter wasn't but doesn't serve you well in the end. But I would tell parents that I totally get it if you wanna say fuck it because it's very hard. And how do you deal with? I've had some parents.
It's interesting, Jen, that I had both parents. We were having a meeting. They were very frustrated with the son and the mother wanted to do one thing and the father another and it was very clear that they were just bickering with each other and he wanted to say screw it. I, I, I've had it and I need, I, I wanna do something different and she was continuing to schedule him and control him and try to make what she wanted him to be, be.
And I realized that what this couple needed was not parent coaching, they needed par marriage counseling because if you can't co parent and try to work through some of the approach that you're gonna have to your child. That's, that's just another note to make that I think when there's a child who is needy and struggling, it is best if the parents can get the help, they need to work through as well as getting the child help because if
you're at odds with each other, I mean, that is not gonna help that child at all. That teen boy, I never met him but II I felt really bad for him when I finished with those two people.
Jenn Junod
How do you like, how do parents, what stage do most of the parents come to you at? Is it the, hey, I have a kid, I'd rather, you know, get started on this proactively. Is it when they're, by the time they're in fuck it mode? Like what, who are most of the clients that you see?
Joanne Light
Well, varies. But I'd say you know, the parents who in the parking lot would say to me, you know, what should I do about such and such? I mean, I think it's more people who there's a behavior, there's something going on. They're constantly, for example, late on curfew, they just, they don't get it. And you could take away their phone for a week, but that's really not working.
So the, it's the tip of the iceberg kind of thing where you can say, OK, this is a strategy. Why don't you try having an open conversation about why you are afraid when they're late as opposed to being angry that they're late, try to get them to understand that. And if that starts to fit in, then a parent is more willing to to go from there. So, yeah, I'd say most often it's something that's just driving them crazy and they're really worried about, sometimes, parents of tweens when they
see that baby who was sweet and cuddly and, you know, love them to death all the time is starting to move away. Some of those parents are proactive and, and will come and try to figure out what is the best way to move into the teenage years. So it's, it's kind of a mix.
But I'd say often I, I use that metaphor, the tip of the iceberg. There's a tip and you can deal with that. But boy, there's a lot of ice underneath and you really have to sort of chop through to really get to, to what the issues really are.
Jenn Junod
How do you and thank you for that. How do parents deal with or how have you seen parents deal with and maybe suggest of not doing social norms in the fact of breaking the cycle in the generational cycle of girls need to get, you know, grow up and get married and have kids. Boys can't be vulnerable or even if you know, they may be changing their identity of and who they want to be and their
sexuality. How would you suggest parents deal with that? So they don't enforce they allow their Children to explore instead of force their values or what they think is, right?
Joanne Light
So many parents are guilty of that. You tend if, but if, as if from when they're very young, you make your values known and you model that behavior. If you are constantly criticizing or constantly correcting, then you're not connecting. So I, I think all I can do is try to talk about how to build a more trusting, deeper relationship with your child and maintain connection and understand that when they're teenagers, they are exploring their identity, their, their gender
identity, their feelings about things. And if you can have conversations, you don't have to agree with them, but you have to have open conversations. It's difficult, I'd say it's just hard and that's it's an important piece of coaching I believe because you can help parents see that if they can connect and not correct all the time and not insist.
I mean, I think there are too many of us as parents who see that we're gonna be successful parents when our child is successful. And that is, is not a very good measure of successful parenting in my idea in my book. And as to gender identity, I will chat with parents about that. But if someone is s you know, feeling that their son wants to be a daughter and they, they're, they're really freaking out and they don't know how to deal with it.
I I would send them to a counselor whose specialty is gender identity. as a coach, I can deal with lots of different issues, but I'm not an expert in that. It's just like if someone comes to me with their autistic child, I will listen, I will help and I will refer them to someone who really, has been totally trained and that's what they know. So when you ask for help, it, it leads to stages of asking for help.
And once you're open, Jen to asking for help and being open to being vulnerable and brave and have the courage to ask for help. I think it leads to more help, you know, one part. Yeah. So I don't know if that quite gets at what you were getting at. But yeah, I, I think I try to get parents to maintain their connections with their kids and let them be who they are.
That doesn't mean there are no limits and no boundaries and no you have to set boundaries. I don't believe in permissive, totally permissive parenting where you're your, you're your teen's friend, your best friend. But you really need to be open to letting them establish their li I I mean, if you label your kid because they are creative. Oh you're such an artist and you tell all your friends, my kid is so creative, he's gonna be an artist.
They feel labeled. And then if he wants to be an engineer, it gets complicated. I think they're just, it's really it takes brave being a parent means you have to be brave. Can you, you impose your goals and value and your goals and dreams on your child? I, I don't think that doesn't always work out so well.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Can you would you mind role playing this out for me? A bit of what it looks like to have connection instead of correction? And I'll be, you can be the parent and I'll be the, the teenager or young adult sharing this even. And I, I do wanna use gender identity as this just because it is something that we're seeing a lot more fluidity and I, I feel like this is something that parents really
struggle with yet. I'm not saying that we need the answer just how to, what correction would look like versus connection when this is brought up. Would you be open to that? Sure.
Joanne Light
I'll try. All right, like I said, that's not my specialty. Yeah.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Just, just with the how to have the conversation. Yeah. So let's do correction first. So if you're a parent that wants to correct it, What does that look like? So if I say, hey mom, I actually don't want, I like, I think, I don't feel like I'm a girl. I feel like I'm a boy in a girl's body. What should I do?
Joanne Light
I think w when did you start to feel this way?
Jenn Junod
I don't know.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
forever, forever.
Joanne Light
Forever. Have you? What, what emotions does this bring up?
Jenn Junod
that I don't look like how I feel.
Joanne Light
And that's a, that's a huge conflict, isn't it? Yeah. That's hard. Can you tell me some more?
Jenn Junod
I wanna become a boy.
Joanne Light
Well, how do you think that will make you feel better?
Jenn Junod
I'll match how I feel on the inside.
Joanne Light
Have you talked about this with your friends? Yeah. What do they tell you
Jenn Junod
that I should do it?
Joanne Light
Well, we're we're happy to your father and I are happy to see if we can get you someone to talk to, who can help you work through this and decide if that's the best thing for you. But just remember, we love you as you are, whoever you are and will be there for you. But I think it's important also for us to explore how you're feeling about lots of things, including wanting to be a boy. Does that feel? OK. Yeah, it sounds like a plan.
Jenn Junod
It does and it definitely shows what connection looks like. It, it really does show what connection looks like as a parent. Now, if I were to say that same phase, what would correction look like? Would that be like?
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
Hey, like, don't you wanna be a, what do you mean you want to be a boy?
Joanne Light
This is, you're a beautiful girl. Why would you wanna be a boy?
Jenn Junod
Ok. And that's that kind of stuff or like this is just a phase is like, you know, you'll grow out of it. Ok.
Joanne Light
That's fine. Well, let's see where you feel next week. I mean, just being dismissive would be being trying to correct.
Jenn Junod
you know, well, I can definitely feel the difference and I hope our audience can too of what having an open conversation looks like compared to a corrective conversation yet and how we can use that in so many different conversations that teenagers and kids and young adults have. So and should have now as a parent, like I, I not specifically this but if you know that's big news to tell a parent, like how do you coach parents through figuring out their own emotions and like a career
change or an identity change? Not just you know, gender identity, but I no longer want to be the, I don't know, most theatrical person in the drama club. I want to go be a head cheerleader. Like that's still, that's still a huge identity change.
Joanne Light
Is that for the child or you talking, you mentioned the parents?
Jenn Junod
Yeah. How would the parents deal with that? Because it's still an identity change?
Joanne Light
I, if I did much the same Jen, I just ask them what they're thinking about it. Be curious about how they came to thinking they'd much rather do something else and what will it take to get there? Do they believe you know, and don't doubt their skills. don't say, oh, but you're such a great actor. And can you jump around like a cheerleader? And do you really want to be seen as a cheerleader?
I, I think we as a parent that, you have to try really hard not to worry about what other parents are gonna say or what other, what your kids', friends' parents are doing, which is so difficult. That's been a particular problem I think in pandemic. But that situation from wanting to change from one end to another should be encouraged when they're teens because that's when they find their passion, they have to explore, their brains are changing.
So they're open, they're super learners so they can really learn anything while they're teens. So I actually would encourage parents to have conversations about things, you know, be curious about what they're interested in because, you know, just because as a little kid they like to dance doesn't mean they're gonna wanna pursue dancing even if that makes you feel like a great mom because my daughter is this beautiful ballerina or my son is this great break dancer.
You know what I mean? It's really, that's, that's a really easy trap to fall into as a parent is to not allow them to be who they. And if, you know, it's like I had one mother who had a daughter who was quite bright and decided she wanted to drop out of high school. She hated school, it wasn't working for her. And the mother tried to change her mind and said, oh, you're so smart. Why would you waste it? And it turned out that daughter eventually dropped out of school got a GED and went, I think
it was aesthetics, aesthetician. She, she became an aesthetician and couldn't be happier. I mean, they're not gonna all turn out how we want them to, you know, they're born and you look at this amazing child and someday maybe you'll feel this, you'll hold a baby or a toddler in your arms and, you have these great dreams but try not to impose them.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And I think that has a lot to do with. Yeah. My mother luckily gave me that opportunity of, I wanted to drop out of school because I was working too much and she helped me figure that out because she was in a different state and she helped me figure out how to make that happen. Luckily the counselor did, let me drop out and figured out the one credit I needed. So I technically dropped out and had, did graduate, which is, I know, very rare but it worked out. Yeah. I'm sorry.
Joanne Light
It worked out for you.
Jenn Junod
It did, it did. And I think one thing that's also hard is the fact that, I, the idea that I didn't want to go to college or college isn't, you know, something that I love to do or that I don't, you know, I'm not making a tons and tons of money and I'm finding my own identity, especially because I have cousins that are in law enforcement firefighters, that are ministers that are doctors that are
nurses. And I know that was very, very hard for my mom to, or I would imagine it was hard for my mom to be like, Jen, you're not doing that. Like you're on your own, like random path.
Joanne Light
It was hard for her to do, but she did the right thing. She did do the right thing.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah. And I, I so appreciate my mom for doing that now just to make sure that we didn't miss anything. Especially because we, we did go down the path of, you know, your own experience and talking about different, you know, scenarios of what parents may often run into and then also how to have that connection conversation versus, you know, a corrective conversation. Is there anything else on, on that topic that you really wanna cover and for parents?
Joanne Light
not really. I, I would encourage every parent to do some research on emotional intelligence and try to learn about that because, it's a skill, it's something you can learn at any age. You're never, it's never too late to understand what it is. It will help, it's will help your kids and your work situation. that's another area that I, that I like to emphasize with parents once I work with them.
But I think we've covered, some pretty important areas and I think every issue that any parent has from a small minor thing to a more, difficult thing. It all comes back to connection and the, the sooner you start that and feel comfortable with it and let your child, feel, have permission to, to talk about worrisome, problematic things that they'll trust you. I mean, your, your teens really want are want, are watching you, they're watching everything you're doing.
You think they're not paying any attention but, but they really are and they need you, they need you then more than ever. So I just encourage parents of teens and tweens e especially to realize that you thank you for not really how they're feeling. At least 90%.
Jenn Junod
They still listen, even though they say they're not listening. Now, one big thing that I, I really wanted to touch on was the fact that you have three Children. You, you retired after 32 years and first off, I know that it's a taboo to ask anybody how old they are. You mi would you mind sharing your age?
Joanne Light
No, I would not mind. And it's very much on my mind because some days I just feel older and older, but I had a birthday in September now. I, and I turned 72. I'm 72. And actually, it's funny you should ask. But, in a week I think it's a week or two.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
My husband and I are gonna be married 50 years king, a happy belated birthday.
Jenn Junod
And congratulations on your soon to be anniversary.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
So, that's a long time.
Jenn Junod
It is. The reason I bring that up though is so many people feel like they can't restart their careers or go a different avenue. And I'm, I'm curious about your experience with that yet. Also your children's experience with that because you're no longer just doing it for yourself. I know I've seen a lot of parents worry too much about what their Children will think or will they still be able to take care of their Children or is it too late for me? Because I had Children?
Joanne Light
I'd say no. It depends on you. I've always been someone who when I decide to do something, I don't usually give up very easily. So I'm deter, I'd say I was determined. I, you know, i it's a passion. My Children. Absolutely. are very proud of me. One daughter, my middle daughter says, why are you doing this? You're making yourself crazy some days.
So why are you doing this? But they're all particularly my son, my, my youngest, he is so proud of me and asks questions all the time about how it's going. What I'm doing when I have an issue. I, you know, I go to him for tech things sometimes. so, that wasn't a problem for me. I think, everyone handles retirement or getting older differently. And for me, I, I really didn't have a particular, I don't wanna play golf and I'm terrible at going shopping and, I hate going shopping, in fact.
So for me it made the most sense to continue, or to try to do something different. And my husband has been very supportive. That's a piece of it. If you have a supportive partner, when you decide at an older age, such as mine to do something different. And, and it's a challenge, it's really a challenge and it's not always easy. Some days it would be much easier to say that same thing.
Fuck it. I mean, who needs this? I'm gonna just sit on the couch and, and read my books all day. But so I think you can do it. It just depends on what makes you happy. It does some of the other things that people do when they retire and make them happy and volunteering got tired. I got tired of just volunteering.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
So what does it look like?
Jenn Junod
And how would you suggest parents doing this when they, and you know, let's bring it back a little bit and I'm very happy to hear that your kids were, you know, open to the change and very proud of you. And I love that you're doing this work when it comes to parents that have teenagers tweens teenagers or young adults and they want to make a big life change.
Like work is taking us from, you know, Boston to L A or, you know, their parents are bringing up divorce or a parent is bringing up a new significant other or a career change.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
How do parents are bringing up that conversation with their, their, well, if they don't work on themselves and they feel comfortable with the decision they're making.
Joanne Light
and if they sh for example, if you, you mean you have a, a teenager who's in school and you wanna suddenly move to California from Boston or from New York. I, I think that's tough and I think you can't, I think you have to have a conversation with that team and if it's gonna cause a lot of pain and anguish and no matter how supportive you are, it may not be the right decision and I think you have to really work that through.
but in general, I, I keep going back, it's connection if you really talked about things and had family meetings and you've always done things, you know, through strategies of conversation and being vulnerable and honest, like, you know, I'm really miserable here. dad and I aren't gonna be, you know, we're separating and this is really, you know, if you explain it in your terms and try to en en engage and get your child's empathy.
Maybe it'll work. But you do, I say until they're really on their own, you know, that for me anyway, family was the priority and I rarely did anything that was and maybe this is wrong me first. I, you have to consider what's best for the family.
Jenn Junod
I, I appreciate that answer and the way I'm hearing it is, you know, that you have to have that open vulnerability and connection and just to, you know, play on the other side of the court to make sure that we see these real life examples of if it's correction, it is telling your Children, we're moving to L A, telling your Children we're getting divorced, telling your Children, you know, I have a new
significant other, you know, all of these where it's a tell instead of that conversation that we and, and being, having them be curious and explaining your feelings and asking them.
Joanne Light
How do you feel about this man in my life? I mean, it means something to me. So I wanna know how you feel. I I it is, you're right. It's just how you approach each situation and being sensitive to other. That's emotional intelligence when you try to understand how someone else feels.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for that. Yeah. And just to make sure that we cover this, what are any words of encouragement that you have for our audience.
Joanne Light
don't go it alone. things are probably not as bad as you make them as they seem. And most important. I, one of the most important things I think as a parent is to every day, have some gratitude and try to feel, figure out what you are thankful for and what is going well because lots of things are going wrong and it's easy to be fearful. The world is pretty scary right now.
There is endless, terrifying things going on all around us. So, worrying about your child is, is pretty normal and you, but just remember, you want to protect them from everything and you are not, you can't do that. You just can't do that. You have to let your, your kids, maybe we didn't talk about this enough but let your kids fail, let them have challenges and figure it out because if you solve all their problems all the time and move obstacles out of their way, it, it, it won't turn
out. Well, I don't believe that the, the that will turn out well, that kids will become anxious and depressed and there's so many things that come from, mom and dad just fixing everything and we saw that in the news recently with this Oxford, you know, the, no, the, college Varsity Blues or whatever they called it where people were paying huge amounts of money to get their kids into college.
That's like a very exaggerated example but it, you know, we, we as parents, I mean, I know that even you get pregnant and you immediately start thinking and worrying about nursery school. It just, it, it, it's just be, and be ca calm, calmness and connection. How about that?
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
Those are my words of wisdom and to end off, our episode, Joanne.
Jenn Junod
What is something that you're grateful for?
Joanne Light
Well, I'm grateful for my family. Most, most of all, I'm grateful for my family and grateful for my husband and the, the life that we've shared. I'm very grateful. I mean, there were a lot of things that went wrong and that, that, you know, there was shit to talk about. We could go through it. But in the end, I'm grateful for a loving relationship.
Jenn Junod
Awesome. And as my, my gratitude for the day, I am grateful for my mom. It's lovely. We have gone, we have gone through a lot of shit and I am actually choosing to not fully divulge all of that to on all of these episodes because I know for a lot of people, it's hard to imagine going through so much shit and growing through that and her becoming my best friend. And I just, I can't, I don't know what I would do without her.
Joanne Light, Jenn Junod
She has, she's, she's my mom as a fellow mom, kudos to her.
Joanne Light
And I, I think it'd be great for you to tell people all about that because it's good for moms to know that you, you can't give up and that you're not alone and that just put push through and she let you be who you were and who you are and that's great.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that Joanne and thank you for joining shit. You don't want to talk about and changing that conversation to parenting is shit to talk about.
Joanne Light
That's right. That's exactly right. And the more you talk the better.
Jenn Junod
Hello again. Beautiful human. What did you get out of today's episode? We'd love to hear what was most impactful to you. We all know someone that could have really used this episode so please send it their way. Remind them that they're not alone. Stay tuned for new episodes every Wednesday. Here's a few ways that we could really use your support to keep shit.
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