S1 E40 Shit2TalkAbout Living with a Terminal Illness with Terry Tucker
Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! Hello, beautiful human. Thank you for joining. Shit. You don't want to talk about. We're stoked to have you be a part of the conversation changing shit. You don't want to talk about into shit to talk about. This show was created to have us open our minds and learn about new perspectives. Even when we don't agree with them, please be advised episodes can discuss content that is not suitable for all listeners and it can be triggering opinions of our guests expressed on the show are
their own. They do not necessarily represent the views of myself or the show. There are a few ways we could really use your support. Please share your favorite episode especially send them to someone that could really use the content we talked about, donate on paypal and Patreon, subscribe and rate the show
itunes and Spotify and follow on social media and join the conversation. It's shit to talk about. That's shit. The number two talk about links are in the episode description.
Jenn Junod
Hey, Terry, thank you for joining shit. You don't want to talk about. Please introduce yourself and what shit you want to talk about today.
Terry Tucker
Well, thanks for having me on Jen. I'm really looking forward to talking with you. I, I, I'd actually like to talk about cancer. I've been dealing with a very rare form of Melanoma for the last 10 years that has seen the amputation of my left foot in 2018 in the amputation of my leg in 2020. in addition to all kinds of different drug therapies and things like that. So I, I think that will be some of the shit that I'd like to talk about today.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. cancer is no joke and to double check my understanding, melanoma is a skin cancer.
Terry Tucker
Melanoma is traditionally AAA skin cancer for usually from exposure to the sun. The kind that I have is a rarer form that appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. And then there's an even rarer form of melanoma that appears in your mucus membrane. So in your nose or your mouth. So yes, it's a sun disease, but it's really melanoma is refers to the melon, the the pigment in our, in our skin cells and that so, you know, I I don't ever remember as a kid, you know, laying out in
the sun with my feet up in the air because that's, that's where mine presented on the bottom of my feet. So my doctors still have not been able to tell me why I got this f form of cancer, but I've been dealing with it for 10 years.
Jenn Junod
Well, I'm glad you're still here and you're definitely a fighter. There was so much that we talked about on our intro call and I'd love to dive in a bit more because how could you tell us a bit about your career and, like, lead us up through your life before the last 10 years? Because when you and I talked about it, it really seemed to impact your mindset.
Jenn Junod, Terry Tucker
Now, I, I would agree with that.
Terry Tucker
I, I started out, you, you can't tell this from looking at me or from my voice, but I'm 6 ft eight inches tall. So I, I started out as a kid playing basketball, started playing basketball when I was nine, played all the way up till I graduated from college, actually went to college on a basketball scholarship. When I graduated from college. My first job out of college was in the corporate headquarters of Wendy's International, the hamburger chain in their marketing department as a
trainee. And then I kind of worked my way up, to a supervisor. Then I switched to hospital administration and I did new product development for a large hospital, in Ohio. And then I made a major pivot in my life and became a police officer and I was, I ran a beat for a number of years in a marked car in uniform. And then I was undercover narcotics investigator. I was a swat team hostage negotiator. Then I started my own school security consulting business. I coached girls high school
basketball. When we lived in Texas, I made the dubious decision in 2019 to start a motivational speaking business right before the pandemic and that kind of morphed into doing things like this podcasting as a way to get my message out. So, and then 2020 I became an author for the first time. So I've had a fairly diverse career and I think all of that has really led up to having the mindset to deal with this 10 year battle with cancer.
Jenn Junod
I know that you've told me all of that information before and it's the first time with the audience and yet I'm still going, damn, that's a career like it's also all over so fast food marketing to hospital, hospital products, development. OK? To becoming a police officer to, you know, narcotics, to swat to basketball and your own security and then motivational speaking, correct?
OK. Who that is? That's a lot to go through. And now, because this is something we also talked about in our intro call. At what point throughout your career did you meet your wife?
Terry Tucker
A me when I was in hospital administration?
Jenn Junod
Ok. I, I asked that because I feel like, you know, working at Wendy's and hospital administration, those are both probably fruitful jobs that are a bit more secure, you could say. And what was that like going to become a police officer?
Terry Tucker
Well, my, my passion had always been law enforcement. My, my paternal grandfather was a Chicago police officer from 1924 to 1954. So he was in Chicago during prohibition when alcohol was outlawed in the United States. during the great Depression, you know, late twenties, early thirties and when the, the gangs, you know, Al Capone and those guys were shooting up the town and he was actually shot in the line of duty with his own gun.
It was not a serious injury. He was shot in the ankle. But my dad always remembered the stories that my grandmother told of that knock on the door of, you know, Mrs Tucker, grab your son, come with us, your husband's been shot. So when I expressed an interest in going into law enforcement, my dad was, oh, no, no, no, no. You're gonna go to college, you're gonna major in business, you're gonna get out and get a great job.
Get married, have 2.4 kids and live in the suburbs and live half the way ever after. But that's, that's the, what my dad wanted me to do. That wasn't my passion. And when I graduated from college, my dad was sick, he was dying of cancer. And so I had a decision to make, do I say sorry dad? I'm gonna do my own thing and sort of blaze my own trail and go into law enforcement or out of love and respect for him.
Do I go into business? And so my resume sort of makes a little, it, it's, it's more understanding when, when that, with that back story because I did, that's what I did. You know, my first two jobs were in business, out of respect for my father and I sort of joke, I did what every good son did. I waited until my father passed away and then I followed my own dreams.
So that's, that's kind of how I started in business and then pivoted to going into law enforcement at a relatively late age. I was a 37 year old rookie police officer, which by most accounts would be old to get into that line of work.
Jenn Junod
There's a few questions coming up for me. So thank you for that. And I do wanna mention them just so that way I remember them of, oh, is your cancer hereditary? Because your father also had cancer? And then the second question being that with being I believe, and I'm not sure where I learned this, that police used to have used to have to be.
There you go. That's, that's a sentence used to have to be a certain height and weight and very similar looking and you're 68. So I'd like to go into that as well and learn a bit more. But going back to the cancer piece is ha has there been any studies around that, that you're aware of or did they say that caused your cancer?
Terry Tucker
So, my, my dad had actually end stage breast cancer in a male back in the 19 eighties. And at that point in time, they really didn't know what to do for a male with breast cancer. And his mother had, had breast cancer as well. And so, I don't know, probably two or three years ago I had some genetic testing done of all 88 genes that doctors either know of or suspect cause pretty much every form of cancer we're aware of.
And I had absolutely no mutations in any of my genes, which begs the question, you know, why did I get this rare form of Melanoma? And my oncologist is not able to tell me, you know, it's like I, I don't know why you got it and, and the way I look at it, you know, II, I don't know why I got it either.
I know I've been tested. I know I haven't passed anything on to our daughter, you know, genetically that would predispose her to, to cancer. So that made me feel good. But I don't spend a lot of time worrying about why I got it. I've got it. So it's something that I have to deal with.
Jenn Junod
And before going into about, you know, the history of police work. How tall is your wife? And how tall is your daughter?
Terry Tucker
So, my, my daughter got my height. My daughter is, is 6 ft two. actually wa was recruited and played basketball at the United States Air Force Academy and is a graduate of the academy and is now an officer in the new branch of the military, the Space Force. My wife is 5 ft five. so it, it is, you know, it, it's kind of funny because I think growing up, I'm 6 ft eight played basketball in college.
I've got a brother who's 6 ft seven who was a pitcher for the University of Notre Dame's baseball team. I have another brother who's 6 ft six who was drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers and the National basketball association. And then my dad was 6 ft five. So I sort of joked that, you know, if you sat behind our family and church growing up there wasn't a prayer chance you were gonna see anything that was going on. But our five, eight inch mother was the boss.
You know, it didn't matter how big and how strong we were, whatever mom said, that's the way it went. So, you know, I think the women in our lives, you know, really are the people that I, I mean, especially, I mean, they're, they're tougher, they're, they're nicer. They, they're more loving and all that kind of stuff. I've just been very blessed to have a loving mother and a loving wife and a loving daughter to, to kind of round out my life.
Jenn Junod
That's awesome. And, and thank you for that. Now, going into like the, the police history a little bit, did that used to be a thing where everybody kind of had to look alike and be a certain weight and height.
Terry Tucker
Yes, I, I mean, it, it's been a long time since that happened. I mean, I had, you know, females in our class, you know, tall, big people like me, you know, short petite women in the class, you know, black people, white people, Asian people, Hispanic. I, I mean, it was a, it was a very diverse class and, and I think that important today, you know, because when my grandfather was a cop, it was pretty much, you know, at least in Chicago and I'm gonna make a huge generalization, you know, it
was white Irish guys, you know, that, that made up the police force. Now, I think you want your police force to be more diverse and to represent your community. So if it's, you know, I, I, if you have a 30% you know, African American population, you'd like your police force to rep, you know, to mirror that and be roughly 30% or as close as you can to, to get that.
So it, it's, it needs to be diverse like that. And I, I've always said that, I think women make better cops than men because they're willing to use their mouth long before they're willing to, you know, kind of put up their dukes and, and fight it out with somebody.
Jenn Junod
So, I mean, that leads to a great question and something that's been on a lot of people's mind, especially since 2020 with police reform. Can we get a quick opinion from you of how you feel about that?
Terry Tucker
II, I mean, it, I guess it depends on how you define reform. Yeah, you know, I, my, my, my white partner and I ran an entirely black neighborhood or Black Beach for 4.5 years and, and let our relief in almost every category, category, you know, drugs recovered, guns recovered, you know, wanted people recovered, you know, every thing and never got complained on.
And I think the reason is we were older when we got into the profession. So we know how to talk to people, you know, and, and, and to explain things and I, I mean, people in on our beat were like we want more cops, not less cops. So now that's one side of it, the other side of it is unfortunately, in law enforcement, when it comes to budgeting, the first thing that gets cut is training, you know, and so yes, we could always benefit from more training.
We could always benefit from learning, you know, more information and things like that and, and I always, you know, young people, a lot of times have come to me and said, you know, I want to be, get into law enforcement. What do you suggest? And what I always tell him today is put your devices down, go out on the street and talk to that homeless guy over there and then go up to the penthouse and talk to that rich guy up there.
Because if you can talk to people, you, you can be a good police officer. I, if you can't talk to people, you, you're gonna, you're gonna have some problems doing that line of work. So I'm all for any kind of reform that makes us better police officers. But at the same time, you know, we're not magicians and, and, you know, you're asking us to do all kinds of things.
I mean, you know, we, we're supposed to be mental health experts. We're supposed to be legal experts. Now we're gonna give Narcan to, you know, people who take drugs that, you know, they start. Well, wait a minute. I don't carry nitroglycerin for somebody that has a heart attack. I don't carry, you know, any kind of drugs for somebody that's, you know, epileptic or, you know, has diabetes or anything like that.
Now, wait a minute, when am I, when did I become a medic on top of all this stuff? So I think you gotta be real careful on, on what you ask people to do because I, I mean, we, we, we just can't be a jack of all trades. We have to, we have to have a specialty like everything else.
Jenn Junod
Interesting. I think that's a, a really good call out and of course, that's something that's not gonna change overnight. And it, and, and especially with the history of the US. Of course, anything that takes change does take time as well as people really speaking up. Now, you mentioned something that I thought was very, very vital of go talk to like the homeless person or go talk to somebody in a penthouse.
Now, I'm very fortunate that I will talk to just about OK, I literally talk to anybody except if they give me bad. Do you vibes then I avoid them like the plague because I don't want them to be an energy vampire. Yeah. So many people are like, I don't know what to say so and especially with homeless people. I know that many of us. So this is a generalization will avoid eye contact or you know, won't talk to them because they feel guilty or they are like, you're just being a panhandler, you
probably have a Tesla somewhere or, and I rolled down the window once and I was like, dude, I don't have anything for you, but I just wanted to wish you good luck. And he's like, you're the first person to talk to me in like a year that isn't just giving him money. And now what do you say to someone to start that conversation? Yeah. Yeah. As a homeless person, what would you suggest?
Terry Tucker
I, I guess I would suggest this, that, you know, we, we tend to like to label or judge people. It's much easier to judge people than it is to be a thinking person, you know? I mean, so, so I'm, I'm just gonna judge it because II, I don't want to think about it, but you know what, here's two words, homeless person, get, get rid of the homeless. What do you got a person?
You got a human being and, and that's one thing I think I always had to remember and, and, and, and my, the people I worked with had to remember, you know, I may pull you over in a car because you're speeding and I, you may have contact with law enforcement now to you. That may be the most scary thing that's happened to you all year. To me it's the third traffic stop of the night.
You know, it's just part of my job and I think you need to remember that, that, you know, it's never a good thing when the police are involved. II, I mean, whether we're giving you a ticket for speeding or, you know, we're responding on a fight or a domestic or we're knocking on your door to tell you the hospital is trying to get a hold of your grandmother, do.
I, I mean, it's never a good thing. So, I, I mean, I think it's, it's incredible important that we can talk to each other and it doesn't have to be. I mean, that was one thing when I was a negotiator, people were always, like, you know, well, how should I handle this? I think my son or my husband or whatever, they, they, they might commit suicide ask them like, oh, if I ask them that I'm putting that in their mind.
No, you're not. No, you're not at all. If you think somebody's gonna harm themselves, ask them because what it may do for them is open the door that allows them to, oh God, thank you. You said, you know, I, I was going through this and nobody was paying attention to me. You just asked, that's all you need. They, they probably won't do it. But if they're not thinking of it by you suggesting it, it's not gonna put that idea in their mind and they're gonna go ahead and do it.
But that's what people are always afraid of. So if you think something's going on, say something, you know, kind of the old, if you see something, say something, same thing here. If you think somebody is gonna harm themselves, just ask them, you're not gonna put the idea into their head. If they are, you may have given them a window to, to you know, get out of this situation.
If, if they're not, then they're gonna look at you like no, you idiot. I'm not thinking about doing that. And people have said that to me a, you know, because, because I'll ask, are you thinking, taking your life, are you thinking of hurting yourself? But that's, that's a conversation that's, you know, and part of a conversation and I think this is really important and I learned this as a negotiator is the, is the word trust.
You know, it's important in any relationship we have, you know, boss, subordinate, husband, wife, you know, what a negotiator hostage taker and they have to be able to trust you. You're, you're developing a relationship and a lot of times people would ask us or say to us, hey, I'll come out, but you gotta promise me, I'm not going to jail. And we would have to say, well, when you come out, you are gonna go to jail and then we would try to deflect the conversation to something more
positive. But we never lied to people. You know, we never said you're not gonna do something because there was a very good chance that two years from now, I'm gonna be right back here negotiating with you at the same, you know, on the same issue. And if you ever felt that I lied to you, then I don't have that trust relationship and we're gonna have to bring in another negotiator because I, I'm not gonna be effective because you don't trust me.
Jenn Junod
That, that really does have so much to do with conversation on to a homeless person and to someone with a penthouse just in general. Now, I know for myself, I hate to admit it yet. I have always found it. It's a lot easier to talk to people that are homeless because I'm like, cool, you're just a human. You know, this is like, I'm curious about everything yet.
I have found it where if people are highly educated, like phd S or doctors or lawyers or they have that penthouse that I almost put them on a soapbox and lose who I am. And I'm curious, do you have experience with that? And how, and if so how to get over that and remind yourself that everybody puts their pants on the same way? Exactly.
Terry Tucker
I, I'll, I'll never forget this. this happened to me when I was at Wendy's. I was a, I was a field marketing trainee. I was about as, you know, if you still sort of think of a totem pole, you know, like everybody else was on the top of the totem pole. That's the part buried in the ground. I mean, that's how low I was on the scheme of, of doing anything.
And one day, Ted Turner, I don't know if you know who Ted Turner is, but he, he used to own the Atlanta Braves. He started, you know, Turner Broadcasting Systems, TB F he, he, he's a, a multi Kaire and he, he had come to Wendy's and everybody, you know, there was the rumor of Ted Ted Turner is here, you know, is he gonna buy the company? And I had actually gone to college with his son.
I've never met Ted Turner, but he was, he came, he did his tour and his driver had gone to get the car and he was waiting in the lobby and I was like, well, should I go up and say something to him and stuff like that? And I'm like, you know, I mean, he's kind of like the, the Bill Gates or the Bezos or something like that of, of my generation, you know, back in the eighties and stuff like that.
So I'm like, ok, let me just go up and I'm like, you know, Mr Turner, hi, I'm Terry Tucker. I went to college with your son. He talked to me for 30 minutes just shooting the breeze. No big deal. I mean, that would be like you introducing yourself to Bill Gates and having Bill Gates talk to you for, you know, a half hour it was. And, and that for me was like, here's a really powerful man that we have decided, you know, obviously he's better than us because he's made a lot of money or is famous or
whatever at the end of your life. Ted Turner and me and you, we're gonna occupy the same small piece of dirt at the end of our lives that, that, that everybody else does and you can't take your money, your power, your influence with you. And I think Turner was an example of a guy. I mean, he could have been like, get away from me, kid. You know, I'm Ted Turner but he wasn't, he was somebody that was genuine and down to earth and, yeah, I'll talk to you.
Yeah, I gotta go somewhere. But hey, you know, let's talk for a few minutes and, and a lot of people won't do that because they think they're special and th those people, I don't have a lot of, you know, II I don't spend a lot of time like, you know, people talk a good game. I always look at what people do. How do you treat, you know, what's your character like? I mean, how do you treat, you know, the people who are, you know, clean it up after you and stuff like that.
I remember there was a professor in college who, who gave an exam and it was four questions. The first three had to do with the course. The last question was, what's the name of the woman who cleans up in here after every class? And about 90% of the people had no idea. You know, they were like, well, I'm here as a college student. I, that, that's a janitor. I, I don't have to pay attention to that. Yeah. Yeah, you do. They're, they're a person too.
Jenn Junod
I would definitely fail on question four because I'm horrible at names. It would be like she could tell me about her kids and, you know how she got into it and I could tell her life story and I'd be, like, no idea what her name is. Horrible at names. Absolutely horrible at names. And to bring this back, actually, since, since you, you know, mentioned that the janitor is female. A question earlier popped into my head of, you spoke about that your mother and your wife and your daughter
are very strong females and something that I think is a really great call out is from what I remember in our intro call is your wife was, had a very steady job where when you went to police work, it was a huge life diff life changing difference in finances. And I'm just, could you speak a bit on how y'all handled it because I know that can be very difficult for specifically men to handle.
Terry Tucker
Yeah, I, I'm, you know, I, I always say I married up, she married down. So, you know, it's not very hard for me to handle at all, you know, but it's that sort of a joke. But, you know, when, when I married my wife, I was a hospital administrator, you know, suit and tie 8 to 5 Monday through Friday kind of person. And we got married and we moved to Santa Barbara California for her job.
And I was, I was I took a job as a customer service manager for an academic publishing company. But one day in the mail, I get this circular that from Santa Barbara City College that says if you take this particular course, you can apply to be a reserve police officer with any agency within the state. So you can imagine, you know, that night at dinner, I'm like, hon.
I know you married me. But you know, I'd like to do this and she was incredibly supportive. She's like, you know what great do that. And so I would work all week at my regular job. I'd come home Friday after work, I'd put on my uniform. I'd go to roll call and I'd work all night and I would come home with this big grin on my face. That's what she said.
She said you'd be exhausted because you hadn't slept, but you had this big grin on your face. And I knew that's what you wanted to do. I knew that was what you were supposed to do. So when we moved to Cincinnati, I said, look, I want to do this full time. And so I became a full time police officer and again, we moved to Cincinnati for her job and then she lost her job in Cincinnati.
And she wasn't able to find another one. We moved to Texas and I had to get out of what I felt was my passion. But again, she supported me in getting into that. So I certainly was going to support her in having to get out of that myself and find something else to do. But again, I wasn't, I mean, a police officer was what I love to do, but it wasn't who I was, it wasn't my identity.
Although I'll be honest with you, I worked with several police officers that had been on the job for 3540 years and they couldn't retire because their whole identity was tied to what they did that gun, that badge and things like that, that, that wasn't me, you know, I, I have a undergraduate degree. I have a master's degree. I've been to law school. I have all this training and sw I'm like, well, what can I do? Well, I'll open a school, security consulting business and that's how I
like, you know what I'm gonna try this, you know, why not? I mean, my wife, I had that security that, you know, it was like, hey, I can, let's try this, Terry and see what happens because your wife's making the money. And so it was a, it was a mutual support of her helping me get in law enforcement and then me supporting her saying, ok, fine, we'll move to Texas with the family and and we'll figure it out as we go.
Jenn Junod
That is very, very humbling I think is the best word to hear in, in the fact that you 68, you know, you could say that, you know, the tall guys are like the manly men and being able to have that give and take in a relationship and being able to follow your passion and then also being there for her and now I, something that you kind of glazed over is you went to law school.
Terry Tucker
I did, you know, when I graduated from college, everybody was getting mbas, those were the, were the big things, you know, everybody wanted to get an MB A and, and I have a business degree, but I, I'll be honest with you, II, I can't say that business really turned me on that, you know, that degree wasn't, I can't wait to go to class. So I like getting an MB A was kind of like, really not sure I want to do that.
And so I, I tried II, I went to night law school. I, I it's a fouryear program. I got through about 2.5 years. I was trying to work full time and basically go to school full time. Unfortunately, the law school lost out but, and that was 2, 2.5 years of learning about the law, which again, I think when I became a police officer later in life, help me to be a better police officer.
So I didn't complete it. I mean, I don't have a law degree. but, you know, it was something that I'm glad I did because it made me a better person, a smarter person, more of a thinking type of person. And so I'm, I'm glad I did it but everybody else was getting mbas, I'm like, I don't wanna get an MB A. What, what can I do? I'll try law school.
Jenn Junod
I did that like that really shows, you know, our lives and successes and failures are not a straight line and it doesn't always go up and to many people dropping out of law school could seem like a failure. Yet in the long run you were able to accomplish so much more. Exactly now because I don't want to spend all of our time. I'm working on getting through all of these so many questions. I, I am gonna, you know, skip over a bit for narcotics but because SWAT is like, I wish we could do a whole
episode on your time as a swat negotiator because it's like pure curiosity. And at one point was a dream of mine to be a negotiator or a mediator in the court system. So what is it? And how do you like would you suggest to people getting into hostage negotiation? Like there's so many questions there.
Terry Tucker
So it, it's, it's basically the way it worked was, you know, I, I, I've always wanted to be the best at what I did in my life. And if you look at a SWAT team, it's usually the, the best officers, they get the best equipment, the best training and things like that. And Cincinnati was not big enough for us to be a full time SWAT team. You know, we weren't like Los Angeles or New York or Chicago or something like that where, you know, that's what you do 24 7 as a police officer.
So we, we carried, I'm gonna date myself again. We carried pagers with us, you know, and, and when the pagers went off, then we responded to whatever the scene was. So the SWAT is divided up at least in Cincinnati and in most SWAT teams into two teams. So there's the tactical team, those are the, the men and the women with the gun, you know, the big guns and they surround the house and, you know, snipers and all that stuff.
And then there's the negotiators. And so when there was an opening for a negotiator, I put in for it and, you know, I was probably 4142 years old. You had to go through a physical fitness test, you had to go through a psychological test, you had to meet with the psychologist, you had to go through all kinds of interviews. I mean, it was, it was a very rigorous process and then when you got on, there was all this training and we worked with a psychologist who helped us and things like that.
But there was a movie, I don't know, back it was in the eighties or the nineties, Samuel L Jackson, it was called the Negotiator. And he played a hostage negotiator and the way it made it look, what like was that he did everything, you know, he was like superman and stuff like that. And people always ask me is, is that the way it is? It's like, no, that's absolutely not the way it is.
So the way it usually works is when we get called to a scene, there are several of us that go to the scene. There's a primary negotiator who that's the person talking either through the door or on the phone or whatever it is. And then there's another negotiator that's sitting right next to them, passing them notes of, of things and, and I'll give you an example here in a minute and then there's three or four more people kind of out working the crowd.
Like, why are we here? Tell me about this guy, you know that. So we may be here because this guy had a fight with his mother. So you may get a note from the person sitting next to you say don't talk about his mother. Oh OK, good. So it's a, it's definitely a team effort and you know, a lot of times we do all the work where the, the, the tactical guys are surrounding the house and, and just, you know, laying in the snow or the cold or the rain and that kind of stuff.
And usually we're in a vehicle or, or a mobile home. We had a command center, there was a mobile home. So, you know, a lot of ways, we were kind of lucky. I mean, we had a bathroom sometimes we had food and water, whereas the tactical guys, they're out in the elements and things like that. So it was, it was incredibly rewarding. And I'd say about 90% of the time we were successful in getting the individual who was either barricaded or taken hostages out.
But 10% of the time they made the decision to take their own life. And while that's always tragic, II I never lost any sleep over it. And I hope you don't think I'm calloused by that. But the way I looked at it was like, you know, whatever we were there to talk to discuss may have been brewing for 1020 3040 years. And then all of a sudden it comes to a head and now you're expecting me to come in and solve the problem. I mean, I don't care who you are.
I mean, Superman couldn't do that. And, you know, and so we did the best we could with what we had and then it was your decision, whether you wanted to, to come out or not or you were like, no, I'm not, I'm, I'm done with this and, and I'm gonna make the decision to end my life. Always tragic but not something that I lost sleep over because I knew I did the very best to try to help you end this peacefully.
Jenn Junod
And that really does bring up how important it is as a society that we need to talk about this shit and mental health and working through these type of issues that we all have, we all have trauma of some type, like trauma does not discriminate. It's like we're here to fuck everybody up and it's our job to really work through it and learn our triggers.
So we don't have those breaking points. And I think that yes, some people may find it callous that you don't lose sleep over it because that is a death. I think that it is also very different for people to project their idea of the job compared to when you're actually in it. I think that's also something that happens with PTSD and the military, like people project how they think you should just get over it all.
And that's definitely like, because as civilians, we have no idea what hostage negotiators or military have gone through or cops have gone through like that is not something that we emotionally can comprehend without going through it.
Terry Tucker
It, it isn't. And, and I guess one thing I would recommend and it sort of goes back to the, the police reform question. You asked me, most major politan police departments have a couple of things that you can do to educate yourself. I mean, you know, everybody's got an opinion about the cops but, you know, you kind of look at them like, well, would you run down that dark alley after that guy with the gun at three o'clock in the morning?
Well, if you wouldn't, then don't sit here and criticize me because I did it, you know, so they, you could be at home under the cover is nice and safe and, and that is that most police departments have two things. One, you can do a ride a lot, you can get in a car with a police officer and you can ride with him or her and find out what it's like to be out in the streets, go on the runs with them.
Now some dangerous runs. They may leave you in the car until the, the scene is safe. But, you know, when they get out and talk to somebody, you can get out, listen to them. How do they talk to that? And two, a lot of them have what they call citizens police academies, which is an abbreviated maybe eight week academy where you go one night a week and they sort of give you a, you know, a reader's Digest version of their of the training that we have as police officers and they'll put you
through different scenarios and it's sometimes the news people do it, you know, and it's like, you know, some guy came at you with and you shot him, he had a cell phone in his hand. Well, you thought it was a knife because the kni the run was a man with a knife. We didn't have a knife. You just thought in your mind it was a knife and you shot it. Now, were you justified? Maybe. But now everybody and their brother, especially if you're white and that person was black.
Oh, you're a bad cop. You're a racist. You're that you, no, you asked me to do this, you know, to make life and death decisions at three o'clock in the morning when it's 10 degrees out when I've had three hours of sleep. I, I'm human. You know, I may I make a mistake. Yeah, I might make a mistake from time to time, but it's a mistake of heart. Not a mistake of the head. I didn't want to have to kill this person. I just felt my life was in danger.
Jenn Junod
That really reminds me of the book Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. That II, I would highly suggest to anybody that they actually talk about three cops that killed a someone pulling their wallet out. And how to make better judged, flash judgments instead. But we all will make mistakes. You know, you can't know everything that's going on. Now. I know that we have spent a ton of time on this because it's like where my curiosity went 100%.
And I, before I move in, because I, I, we talked about how all of this really led up to being able to deal with cancer. I don't want to skip over your security ti company and your time as a basketball coach, could you kind of tell us some experiences from those two that have really helped you in this time frame?
Terry Tucker
Yeah. II, I mean, I was a school security consultant. I, I went to schools and, and, you know, I, I did a, an assessment of my daughter's of our daughter's school and they liked what I did and so they recommended me and I was fortunate to kind of travel all over the United States and, and work with schools in, in that regard. I, I mean, a lot of times, not a lot of times, a few times I had schools that were like, yes, we want to contract you to do this.
And then they would say, well, we want you to meet with our attorneys and our attorneys will tell you what to put in your report and, and you know, because that way it's attorney client privilege and, and you know, if somebody sues us because something happened, we can't get at it and I'm like, no, that's not the way it's gonna work. It's, you know, it's my butt on the line if I think something should be in a report and a lawyer is telling me, oh, you need to take that out.
That shouldn't be in there. So it was, it was sort of having to stand up for yourself and say, look, I, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not telling a lawyer how to do his job. I don't think a lawyer should tell me as a security expert, how to do my job. So that, that was something I had to deal with in that regard, in terms of coaching. I never coached girls before.
If you think of my life, you know, I grew up with brothers, no sisters, went to a Catholic, all boys high school, went to an all male military college and now I'm coaching girls, you know, and it was like, I mean, I remember when my wife was pregnant and the obstetrician was like, do you want to know what it is? And it's like, yeah, sure. It's like, well, you should buy pink.
I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you need to leave it in until it's done. I have no idea how to raise a girl whatsoever. I, I mean, I, I sort of joke about that but now I'm coaching girls and girls play sports again, a huge generalization for different reasons than boys do girls. Are more in it for the camaraderie and, and the friendships and things they can, they can develop.
So I'll give you one quick story. we're in the middle of the game and I turn to the bench and I point to one of the girls and I'm like, go in for so and so, and she shakes her head. Yes. And, and then I turn around and I'm watching the game and I'm coaching, I look over at the scores table, there's nobody there. So I turned back around and I'm like, get in the game and now she's shaking me off like a pitcher does, you know, in the major leagues, like, I don't like that sign, give me another, like
what you don't want to go in the game? I'm like, wait a minute, what's going? So I bring her over to me and I'm like, what's the problem? Now, this is in the middle of a basketball game? I mean, it's not like a time out or anything. And I, I said, what's the problem? She's like, I don't wanna go in the game like, well, why don't you want to go in the game?
Well, because my friends are in the stands and I'm afraid that if I make a mistake they're gonna laugh at. I said, what about your responsibility to your teammates? You come out here every day, you work hard to make yourself and your teammates better. What, what do you owe them. And I mean, then the tears come and I'm like, oh my God, am I even a counseling session right here on the sidelines in the middle of a game?
And I was, and so, you know, I, I had to convince her that she owed as much to her teammates as she did to her friends and I eventually got her to go into the game, but I had never had that happen to me when I was coaching boys. And so that was definitely something I had to sort of tune into the, you know, the emotional aspect of some of the players and, and, you know, and check in with them, you're doing ok with that, you know, and, and, and coaching is like managing, you know, there are certain
players that I needed to yell at to get their best. There are certain players that I just needed to look at to get their best and there's certain players that I didn't need to do anything to, they were gonna be harder on themselves than I was ever gonna be on them. And that's kind of the way managing is, you know, with people, it's like one size does not fit all. You have to figure out and know your players, what motivates them so you can get the best out of them.
Jenn Junod
Now, I, I, especially with your example of that female player I could only imagine and I'm female. So you know, I, I can't say yes or no. Wouldn't men still have those feelings? Just shut them down instead of and ignore them instead of, you know, actually saying something.
Terry Tucker
I, I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, I never had those feelings. No, nobody, as far as I know that I ever played with had those. I mean, that was the, the game was the reward, the game was the reward for, you know, all those tough hours in practice when you're, you know, you're, you're dying and you can't, you know, it's like, yeah, come on, coach, let me play, let me get in the game and you were mad when you didn't get in the game, you know, so that's why I like said it was so
foreign to me. It was like, you, you don't wanna play, I mean, you work your butt off and practice. What do you mean you don't want to play? This is the reward, this is what you want, you want to get out on the court. No, no, I don't. I've never had that experience on from a male. So I'm not saying they don't have those feelings and maybe they do kind of push them down. But, you know, for guys, it was always like, yeah, I wanna play and you're mad when you don't get in the game.
Jenn Junod
Interesting. Ok. Now we've, we've gone through your career in the last 45 minutes. And I am just gonna throw it out there. Do you have a hard cut? you know, the time this was scheduled? Sweet. We're gonna go a little over our, our time because you have quite the story. now you were diagnosed with cancer 10 years ago and that's shitty news, like absolutely shitty news. And how did you, how did you handle that? Like, what was that like?
Terry Tucker
Yeah, it, it was talking about something that came out of the blue and hit you right between the eyes, you know, I mean, I was the basketball coach at this high school at a callous break open on the bottom of my foot right below my third toe. And initially, I didn't think much of it, but after it didn't heal for a couple of weeks I met, made an appointment to go see a P A foot doctor friend of mine and he took an X ray and he's like, Terry, I think you have a little cyst in there and I can cut it out
and he did and he showed it to me it's just a little gelatin sack with some white fat in it. No dark spots, no blood, nothing that gave either one of us concern. But fortunately or unfortunately sent it off to pathology to have it looked at. And then two weeks later I get a call from him and as I said, he was a friend of mine and the more difficulty he was having telling me what was going on, the more frightened I was becoming.
So finally he just laid it out for me. So, Terry, I've been a doctor for 25 years. I have never seen this form of cancer. You have a rare form of Melanoma that appears on the bottom of the feet or the palms of the hands. And I recommend you go to MD Anderson Cancer Center, which is probably one of the best cancer center, certainly in the US, maybe in the world to be treated.
And so, I mean, I went through probably all the emotions that you would think of that are associated with grief. You know, I was like, in denial. Like, no, I, I've done everything right in my life. I, you know, I exercise, I eat right. I don't smoke and II, I did everything I, I, so I can't, you know, and then you sort of bargain with God and you get mad and you, and you go through all these emotions and then I just got to a point where it was like, well, yeah, this sucks, you know, but we're
gonna embrace the suck. We're gonna, you know, not try to blame somebody and, and we're great in this country. you know, I'm gonna start down towards my goals and then boom, I'm gonna, I'm gonna butt up against an impediment. Something got in my way and we quit and we give up. But we don't, we don't take responsibility for it. We wanna blame, you know, I'm gonna blame my awesome.
I'm gonna blame my parents. I'm gonna blame my station in life. Very few people take personal responsibility for their own success and happiness. Now, I wasn't happy about it, but I was, the way I looked at it was these are the cards that I've been dealt and I have to play them to the best of my ability. And, and that's what I've done for these 10 years.
And I am not one of those people that, you know, basically says, OK, doc, you got an MD and all these initials after your name on your coat. So I'm gonna turn my entire life over to you and you just tell me what to do. II I don't do that. I mean, I, I research, I read, I ask questions and I want answers that I can understand. I'm not a doctor, don't give me, you know, doctor, tell me and you.
So as a human being, how should we do this? Should we not do this? And why? And so it was just a, it was just taking what I've learned through my whole life and saying, OK, you're gonna do the best you can with this. It, it's, it's, you're probably gonna die from it. But you know what, I'm not gonna die today. And so today is the only thing I, I try to focus on and we'll see what happens.
Jenn Junod
Now, this. So you found out in 2020 or in 2012 if I can math. Right? And now not only are you going through a really hard time like this is happening to you yet? I can only imagine you what your friends and your wife and your daughter are feeling like that's incredibly scary.
If I just thinking about if Tyler was going through this, I, I personally don't know if I could be strong enough for him or how to help him or anything like that. And how did, how did others handle it around you? But also help support you.
Terry Tucker
Yeah, that's, that's a great question. So I, I guess I look at three things. I call my three Fs that have got me through cancer and, and their faith, family and friends and I, I have a very strong faith in God and that certainly has helped me and, and I've had people ask me, it's like, well, you know, who do you blame because you got cancer? Like, well, I, I don't blame anybody or you must blame God.
Like no, I don't think God got up on a Tuesday morning, checked us to do and said, hey, Terry Tucker Cancer Day. I don't, I don't believe that at all, but I, I do believe that my fate that he's given me the strength to get through this and then you move to family and, and I'll, I'll give you a quick story that it sort of, I identifies how important family is for me when I had my leg amputated and I found I had these tumors in my lungs.
My doctor wanted to put me on chemotherapy and I was like, is it, is it gonna save my life? Like, probably not, but it may buy you some time. And I'm like, well, I don't think I wanna do that if the outcome is gonna be the same. I don't think I want to go through that, but I'll go home and I'll talk to my family about it. And so I, I go home and I start telling my wife and daughter, it's just the three of us and you know, my daughter's meeting.
All right, we need a family meeting, my family meeting. It's not like we got a board here. It's like the three of us. What do you mean? We need a family meeting? So we all sit down at the kitchen table and we give our different perspectives on me taking chemotherapy and when we're done, my daughter is like, all right, let's take a, let's think about how many people want dad to take chemotherapy.
And my wife and daughter raised her hand. I'm like, wait a minute, am I getting out, voted for something that I don't want to do? But I remembered back in the police academy, our defensive tactics instructor used to have us bring a photograph of the people we love the most to class. And as we were learning different techniques to, to defend ourselves, we were to look at that photograph at those people because he reasoned, you'll fight harder for the people you love than you will
fight for yourself. So I ended up taking chemotherapy, not because I wanted to, but because my family, I love my family more than I love myself. And in hindsight, it was a good move because it, it allowed me to get to a point where I'm on this clinical trial drug now. And then finally friends, you really find out who your friends are when you get a chronic or, or a terminal illness.
And I mean, I have neighbors here where I live that if I bring up, you know, that I plan my funeral and stuff like that, they're like, no, no, can't deal with that and they'll walk away from the conversation. But I guess let me sort of end with this. You've probably done this. I know I've done it a million times in my life where somebody's going into the hospital for surgery or even something positive, like they're gonna have a baby.
And what do we always say? Hey, if you need anything, let me know that is the biggest cop out in the world that is, that's like pretending you're, you're playing in the game when you're sitting on the sidelines when I finished my first surgery at MD Anderson. I did not have to stay in the hospital. I've been about 10 minutes. My cell phone rings.
It's my 95 year old friend. This guy had been in World War Two. He said, Terry, I know you just got home from the hospital. But can I come over for five minutes? And within 15 minutes here's my friend with a fully cooked chicken and a pan of cream cheese. d she's like, here you have dinner for tonight and you have breakfast for the morning. He didn't pretend like he was playing in the game. He got involved. This same things you need to do at your house.
You know, cut the grass. The dog needs to be walked, the kids need to be picked up the, the grocery shopping needs to be done are the same things I need to have done at my house. But I'm going through surgery and I don't have time to figure out how you can help me. Don't say, hey, if you need anything, let me know. I don't have time to let you know, figure out how you're gonna help me if you love me and get involved and just do something.
Jenn Junod
I can totally relate in the fact that I've said, let me know and in the fact because I completely blank too, it's like, I don't know what they need help with or what I could help out with most and I, I can totally see how just showing up to and something that I've learned, I had a conversation, with Mimi Hayes and she had a, craniotomy and it was due to bleeding in her brain and like, how so many people went away because they didn't really know how to handle it.
Now, I had a craniotomy in 2020. And luckily I, I feel like I've gotten a better at having close friends, not fake friends. And I told them I was like, I just need people to come hang out with me on the couch because this is boring as shit. Like this is just so boring. But I also couldn't walk very far. Like my, the farthest I could walk for three weeks was like the mailbox and it was so boring.
I'm like, I'm just going out of my mind because I'm so bored yet. When I ask, when other people have gone through those situations, I don't always know what to do or what to say. And I think that's something that so many of us struggle with and something that I've seen. And I, I don't know if you agree is even if people are just like asking, how are you feeling? How can I show up for you?
Can I come over and sit with you? That is something I've been learning through the podcast that other people have suggested that can be very helpful even if it's not necessarily a, you know, an action, like mowing the lawn. But if you could, if you were in that situation and you knew that somebody was going through surgery or you were the friend, how would you show up for you?
Terry Tucker
Yeah. Iii, I think, go back to what I told you about, being, you know, when I was a hostage negotiator and, and asking somebody if you thought they were gonna hurt themselves. You know, I, I think that's part of, I think what you're saying is you don't know what to say, you know, and you know, hey, can I come over? Iii I kind of do it just the opposite.
Look, I'm coming over, I'm gonna bring, you know, a six pack of beer or six pack of soda or, or, you know, whatever I'm gonna do that. I'm, I'm telling you what, I'm, I'm not asking you, I'm telling you now, if you don't want me over, you're gonna tell me now, Terry. I, I'm, I'm not feeling real up to it right now. Let's, let's do it tomorrow. Ok. Fine.
But at least I engaged you and I think the issue and, and why most people are probably worried is just like you said, I don't know what to say, you know, I don't know if I should ask that person if they're thinking about killing themselves. Because what if I put that idea into their brain? Well, you're not going to, you know, I, I mean, I've told you you're not going to.
So, you know, I, that's what I used to do for a living. So, if, if you think, ask that person, same thing here. I don't, I don't know what to say. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to say a word. You can just sit out, just be with me. You know, if I want to talk about some, let me talk about it. You know, I, I've been on podcasts where after the person, you know, we got off the podcast.
They're like, man, I, I would really like to ask you about what you feel about dying. And I'm like, why didn't you ask me that? Because I'm sure there's people out in the audience that would have liked to have known I was a little uncomfortable with that. Why were you uncomfortable or were you afraid? I was gonna be uncomfortable? Even though I told you, you could ask me anything you want.
So I think it's important for all of us to Yeah, just show up. Yeah, you're right. Maybe it's not cutting the grass, maybe it's not taking the garbage out. Maybe it's not going to the grocery store. But if you're there with me and I'm like, yeah, could you go get me a glass of water? Could you, I, I mean, that's you, you're not doing anything special, you're just kind of assisting me and sometimes I just wanna be with somebody sometimes I don't, sometimes I wanna be alone and I'll tell
you now don't come over today, come over tomorrow and stuff like that. So just, just get involved and take your cue from the person. I'm sure you would have been the same way. It's like, hey Jen, I'm gonna come over now, Terry, I don't want you to come over today. I'm, I'm not feeling up to it. I'll come over tomorrow. Ok, I'll take my cue from you. Take your cue from that person.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that. It's, it is as you're telling us about that, I, I know that I had a, I have a good friend named Christina who she, somehow I'm not the greatest cook. And yet I find people that love to cook. I don't know how I attract those people in my life, but I'm so grateful. And so she knows the foods. I like what I like what I don't eat the ins and outs of it. And so my mom was in town and it was about a week after surgery and I'm not doing great and my mom's buying gross food.
So I just asked Christina, I was like, can you go grocery shopping with my mom because I can't go grocery shopping and none of the food she's getting tastes great and it's that type of thing that she was just open to doing whatever and she just showed up. So I'm, you're really connecting the dots there. And because you mentioned it, that another podcast I probably would have gotten there. But how do you feel about dying?
Terry Tucker
Well, I mean, I don't want to hasten it in any way. Don't get me wrong. but when I found out after I had my leg amputated and I found out these tumors in my lungs, I did go with my wife to the mortuary to the cemetery into our church And I planned my funeral and go on these podcasts. And I do talks where I talk about the need to keep moving forward and motivation and stuff like that and kind of funny that I had some people sort of reach out to me.
I'm like, well, you know, don't you think that's kind of defeatist that, you know, you planned your funeral? And I'm like, well, last time I checked we're all going to die. You know, I, I don't think anybody's working on a cure for life right now. So, you know, everybody dies but not everybody really lives. And so, there was a native American Blackfoot proverb that I heard years ago, it went like this when you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced, live your life.
And I think those are the important words in this, that live your life in such a way so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice and that's what I want. That's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to hasten my death. But because of my faith, because that I, I feel that I found my purpose in this life. And I, I use my unique gifts and talents and I live that purpose.
That death is not nearly as scary as those people who kind of live a casual life. And then, you know, their goals, their dreams, their ambitions become a casualty of that sort of unplanned living. And again, another huge generalization, I've seen a lot of people die as a police officer. And certainly with these 10 years of fighting cancer and the people who seem to go peacefully or what you and I would call it peaceful seem to be the people that found their purpose in life and live
that reason. Whereas the people who, you know, I want another month or I want another year, you know, I'm not ready. Those seem to be the people that never did anything with their life again, huge generalization. So I guess I would say as long as you find your purpose in life, death is not nearly as scary as those people who just kind of muddle through it.
Jenn Junod
But the, the quote that you mentioned from Blackfoot tribe, it reminds me of something that I learned in a leadership course of the Dash. It's a poem I believe, and it talks about that there's a start date and an end date, but all that matters is the Dash and making the best out of the dash. The dash is what people will, will remember. Wow. See if I can talk and there's been times where I've traveled and like a time in Peru where the, ok, the roads are so small and the bus drivers are scary
like there. I honestly, there's been so many times while more or less, while traveling that I go, I might die today. It could happen. And I know that I've lived my best life. Not in the like, oh, live your best life, but I did what I came here to do. Yeah, it might not be complete yet. I'm working on becoming the person I want to be. And I can't rush it even though I really wanna rush it.
Like getting the podcast really popular and being able to self sustain and becoming a public speaker, it takes time. Yet if I die today, I know that I love the most I could love. I've worked on things with my family that I wanted to. I made missed connections. And that's something that in Diane's episode that we talked about was with mortality and tie up Blue Sense.
Now you talked about your views on death and I know that you can't necessarily talk for your family. But how are they feeling about all of this? Are they mad that you're not fighting more? Because to me that's the people that matter, not people that are seeing that you're defeatist.
Terry Tucker
Yeah. Yeah. II, I don't think they feel I'm not fighting more. I, I mean, I, I, my daughter is kind of one of these people, I mean, she's young and, and, you know, she's in her mid twenties and, and, and she's like, you know, I think as long as dad is here and talking, that's good. So, she, you know, she's, she's very supportive but not in a, I wanna know what's going on kind of way.
Whereas my wife, kind of, and this is really kind of funny when I first met her, my wife had never, ever been on the inside of an emergency room, had never been, you know, as a kid for stitches or you broke your arm or anything like that. Nothing. And so, you know, now I get this disease where I've, I've, I've been really sick, I've had all these surgeries, I've had all kinds of biopsies.
And I remember 11 day I was having a part of my foot before I had my foot amputated, removed. They were doing a biopsy and my wife is literally sitting down at the end of the table with the surgeon and the two of them were just talking away and I'm like, you could have never done this when we were first married. You would have been like, oh God, this get me out of here, but she's had to adapt now.
I mean, I look at her. Like, you know, I think it's harder for her than it is for me. I mean, I know what I have to face. I know what, what's gonna happen. She's gotta like drop me off to go for treatment or when I had my leg amputated, it was during the middle of COVID. She literally dropped me off at the hospital. She could not be with me. I was the only surgery that day, The doctor had to get special permission to do the operation.
I was supposed to be in the hospital for a week. I was in for 48 hours and that was all COVID related. And you know, my wife dropped me off. She's like, what do I do? Like, I guess just go out in the parking lot and pray until the surgeon calls in tells you it's over and you know, I'm, I'm ok.
I said I don't, I don't know what to tell you. I, I mean, I wish you could be with me now for me. Yes, it was hard to have my leg amputated. I think it was 10 times harder for her to just be by herself. And though somebody I love is having this done and I can't be there to support them,
Jenn Junod
but that's really tough on her. And yet at the same time, have you thought about like, what you wanna leave for them? Especially since things can change so drastically and quickly. And I mean, that's for any of us in life yet. we spoke about other people in the trial and it can, you never know what's gonna happen? How have you put thought into like, what you want to leave them with?
Terry Tucker
I, I do, I, I mean, I, I've written them both letters, that are to be open and it kind of sounds clicheish, you know, when I die. I, you know how I feel and, and, and what I would like for them, I, I've, you know, I have written a book which will, you know, hopefully last for quite a long time. I've, I've been on these podcasts and things like that, but I think it's more important not to, you know, I, I think it's more important to say the things you want to say before you go, you know, tell them,
you love them. And I mean, we talked about that, you know, when we were, before we started recording, you know, the, the importance of saying the things you wanna say to people. And, you know, I, I'm to the point now where just because of my age, you know, being older and, and having cancer, like, I don't, I don't care what people think about me.
I don't care what, you know, you, you, you think I should be doing more, you think I should be doing less. It's like, you know, it's kind of like the, the story I told you, you know, if you're not willing to run down that alley after that guy with the gun at three o'clock in the morning when you're cold, tired, wet and hungry. Then I don't wanna hear what you have to say.
You know, if you're not willing to walk in my shoes, if you haven't walked in my shoes, then I don't, I don't need your criticism. I mean, it, it, it's sort of hollow, it doesn't really resonate with me because it's like, look, you haven't done this. If you, when you, if you've done it. Yeah, I wanna hear what you say. How did you get through? But for those people who criticize just because like I said, it's easier to judge than it is to think, man.
I don't really have a lot of, I don't really care what they say. So I think I've spent this time really telling my wife and daughter what I care, you know, that I care about them, that I love them, that they're important to me that I could not have gotten through this without them. I would have died several times along the way if it hadn't been for my wife saying to a nurse, hey, check him.
You know, I, I was on a drug for five years that put me in the emergency room with a fever of 100 and eight degrees, but that's usually not compatible with being alive. Usually you're boiling your organs at that. But she was like, you, he's acting weird. You should check. His temperature was 100 and four and eventually got up to 100 and eight and, you know, all hell broke links.
I mean, all these doctors come in, they're throwing more blankets off, they're packing me in ice. They're doing all this kind of stuff. If she hadn't recommended that nurse to check me. I may have just died right there.
Jenn Junod
Damn. Like your wife does sound like a superhero.
Jenn Junod, Terry Tucker
I just want to say that she's, yeah, she's tough.
Terry Tucker
I mean, she really is, you know, tough Norwegian woman. So, you know, I got lucky.
Jenn Junod
Wow. And, and thank you for hanging tight a bit longer than planned today. to, to go through the normal wrap up scenario. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about today?
Terry Tucker
Let me, let me leave you with a, a story if I may and, and I know I've shut my mouth off a lot, but I, I think this is a pretty, pretty good story. Always been a big fan of westerns growing up. You know, my mom and dad used to let me stay up late and watch Gunsmoke and Bonanza. My favorite was Always Wild Wild West. 1993. The movie Tombstone came out. You very well may have seen it.
It starred Val Kilmer as a guy by the name of John Doc Holiday and Kurt Ross as a man by the name of Wyatt Earth. Now Wyatt and Doc Holiday were two living breathing human beings who walked on the face of the Earth. They're not made up characters just for the movie. And Doc was called Doc because he was a dentist by trade. Pretty much Doc Holiday was a gun slinger and a card shark.
And Wyatt his entire adult life had been a law man. So these two men from entirely opposite backgrounds somehow come together and form this very close friendship. And at the end of the movie, Doc Holiday is dying at a Sanitarium in Glenwood Springs, Colorado, which is about three hours from where we are. And the real doc holiday died at that Sanitarium.
He's buried in the Glenwood Springs Cemetery. And Wyatt at this point in his life is destitute. He has no money, there's no job, he has no prospects for a job. So every day he comes to the Sanitarium and he had doc play cards to pass the time. And in this almost last scene in the movie, the two men are talking about what they want out of life. And Doc says, you know, when I was younger, I was in love with my cousin, but she joined a convent over the affair, but she's all that I ever wanted.
And then he looks at why, and he says, what about you? W what do you want? Now? Why? I kind of nonchalantly says, I just want to lead a normal life. And doc looks at him and says, there's no normal, there's just life and get on with living your Jen you. And I probably know people that are sitting back right now and be like, and when this happens of a normal life, when that occurs out of a successful life, when this happens, I have a significant life.
What I'd like to leave you with is this. Don't wait, don't wait for life to come to you. Get out there, find the reason you were put on the face of this earth, use your unique gifts and talents and live that reason because if you do at the end of your life, I'm gonna promise you two things. Number one, you're gonna be a whole lot happier. And number two, you're gonna have a whole lot more peace in your heart.
Jenn Junod
I love that. And you like covered our next part, which is words of wisdom. And the, I'd like to add a, a piece of working through your past trauma really helps you find those gifts. And it is so, so incredibly rewarding. Yet the journey can be really hard, yet, so worth it.
Terry Tucker
And the, the hard is what makes it good if it was easy, everybody do it.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And you know, I I've taken many landmark forum courses and as a coach, you also mentioned, this is there's a difference from being on the bench and being in on the court. And it's terrifying when you first start and it is incredibly hard as an example. I listen to a negotiating podcast and I'm like, I'm never gonna negotiate. Negotiating is scary.
Like they're gonna like, chew me out, they're gonna be really mean and I negotiate like, everywhere I go, if it's like a banana is too brown, I might as well ask, hey, this can, is dented. Can I get it a discount? What are they gonna say? No at you know, thrift shopping? That's a favorite thing. This is 45. I'll take it for 35. What are they gonna say?
No? Cool and living your truth, living your ha like finding your unique talents is lets you be the best version of you to be the best version for others. And as I awkwardly do nowadays because as many of you know, I lost my job in January and my dream is to share shit you don't want to talk about and helping people change it into shit to talk about and to do that. I, we really need donations right now because I can't keep paying for, for it because I have no money.
And so the link will be in the description. And also if we missed any questions that you wanted to ask, Terry, please ask us on Twitter, Instagram, tiktok. Just so that way we can get go ask him these questions. And last, but not least, Terry, what is something that you're grateful for?
Terry Tucker
Oh, my family. I mean, we talked about how important they've been in my life. Iii, I love them. I'm very, very lucky that I have them.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And I am incredibly grateful for becoming me and being ok with sparkly stuff because I have always loved sparkles and I have been way too afraid for so long of being me because I would stand out yet. That just happens to be like, I love sparkly stuff. I love bright colors and it's ok that it's not the norm. I'd rather think about it and make my own decisions than blend in.
Terry Tucker
Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, who, who if you like it, wear it, I mean, it's not like you're causing nuclear war or something like that. You enjoy it.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, exactly. So thank you, Terry for joining the podcast.
Terry Tucker
Thanks Jen for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you.
Jenn Junod
Bye.
Hello again. Beautiful human. What did you get out of today's episode? We'd love to hear what was most impactful to you. We all know someone that could have really used this episode. So please send it their way. Remind them that they're not alone. Stay tuned for new episodes every Wednesday. Here's a few ways that we could really use your support to keep shit.
You don't want to talk about going share an episode let's get the message out there donate on paypal or Patreon. Subscribe and rate the show on itunes or Spotify and follow us on social media. Shit to talk about. Shit. The number two talk about. Bye.
