S1 E4 Shit2TalkAbout Suicide Prevention with Louisa Rocque

Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! 

Jenn Junod

Thank you for joining. Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About as it says in the title. This is Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About this can have explicit content. We do cuss and we don't censor and it could be content that's not suitable for kids under the age of 13. That being said, kiddos, please ask your parents to listen. If you want to listen to one of these episodes.

Parents, please use your best judgment if you are gonna allow your kids to listen to this. This is content that I wish I knew when I was a kid yet. It does involve explicit content and there are trigger warnings for both kiddos and adults read the description to read what it's about because there are way too many topics that we talk about that could be trigger warnings for any of us. We do wish you the best and we really want to have this podcast out there to change shit.

You don't want to talk about to Shit2TalkAbout. So we all have help and no longer feel alone. Much love. Enjoy the episode. Hey, Louisa. Thank you for joining Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About and being a future ted talker and also being part of the suicide prevention group group. How would I properly say that? What is your proper term? Let's say that because I remember that your title is huge.

Louisa Rocque

So my title is a director and it's a very lengthy title, but it's area director for Greater Los Angeles and Central Coast. And I work for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

Jenn Junod

Very cool. And that is the part that I remembered because suicide prevention and that is something that I've talked about a lot is my experience in that world and my own attempt. So I am just so excited that you're here because this is definitely shit. We have to talk about. What is there any other aspects of that? Because I don't want to take that away from you of shit we don't talk about as a society that you wanna talk about.

Louisa Rocque

I mean, I think the more that we talk about mental health and suicide, the more that people do share their stories like your own story or myself who lost a friend to suicide, the more that we share our stories, the more that we have these conversations, the more that it decreases stigma. Because although we've gotten to a very great place of where we're at now, especially with the pandemic.

And there being so much focus on mental health and conversations like really it's been in the forefront of a lot of conversations. And so I'm so happy with that, but there is always room for improvement and I think there will always be some level of stigma that we can continuously work towards trying to decrease. So it is very important to be talking about this shit.

Jenn Junod

Yeah. And it really is shit because it's not something that and that's, I mean, yes, it's the entire podcast altogether. It's not like we're, we're having good conversations and yes, we're building the conversation with building rapport with each other yet. These are topics that can be very, very heavy to talk about. And before we go into your history and how you ended up where you're at, how do people bring up this conversation and talk about it more? Because I know for myself

when I first get to know people and I say that I have a history of self harm or suicide attempts, people are like, what like that like it and if they don't have that background, it can be really difficult to bring it up and also show people that, you know, hey, like this is part of my background, but that's also means I'm in that space that can understand and possibly be of service in that background. So like, how do you have that conversation?

Louisa Rocque

I think just the same as we have any other really important conversation. And I think because so many in our society are so fearful of this topic. The more that we just talk about it, truthfully, the more that we do bring it up in conversation, the more that we acknowledge the struggles, but also acknowledge the positive places of where someone like yourself who has attempted are at.

Now, the more that it'll start to become normal and not feel as, oh, wow, you're bringing up the word suicide like that. We shouldn't be talking about this at all. I mean, totally irrelevant, but kind of irrelevant just in the evolution of conversation. I remember when I was going through IVF and infertility issues and at first I didn't want to talk about it at all because it was my private story, right?

It was my own story. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to open up to Joe on the streets. But the more that I started to talk about it, the more that I realized that people actually had these connections as well. And so I think that the same goes with this, the more that we talk about our struggles, the more that we talk about our losses, the more that we can understand each other and society as a whole and realize that it's OK to open up about these things.

It's also ok to have any of those emotions that have led you to where you were in the past. And the more that we talk about with our friends and family and people that are close to us, the more that we can also understand how to better support each other when you are going through a hard time. So I think all of those things included, make it extremely important for us to continue to bring up hard topics.

Not necessarily if we're like at a party that's maybe not like a, a party story that you would want to bring up, but just more so embedded into our general conversations so that it becomes more normalized.

Jenn Junod

I'm laughing over here about that because I'm the worst at a party because I don't know how to have small talk. Like I walk away knowing someone's life story. And that's, that's one of the reasons I'm really bad at parties and don't go because I get really nervous and shut down or I become very attached to like one person and I'm like, what is your life about? Let's get to know your life. So yeah, definitely normally not something you bring up at a party, right?

Louisa Rocque

Which also not saying that you can't have that conversation at a party because if you are getting to a place where someone feels supported in having that conversation, then that's great if the conversation gets there. But, you know, it's, it, it is very hard to bring up and, and so I don't want to sound like I'm necessarily contradicting myself, but it is really important to just normally embed it into conversations. But of course, when the space feels appropriate to do so.

Jenn Junod

And 100%. And on that note, something you and I have talked about and why I really focus on ending these episodes. On a higher note, how do we be supportive about these conversations and help with these conversations? Especially if it's someone close to us and not I guess, assist in sending them in the wrong direction. I'm not even sure how to properly ask that question.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I mean, I think that something that I, I say to my friends when I'm having conversations about this is what the world really needs is more listeners. So I think how to support someone who is going through a really hard time. You don't need to be as focused on fixing whatever it is. That is the problem that they're experiencing or the emotional stress of everything that they're experiencing.

You don't have to focus on fixing that you just really have to lean into being empathetic. You'd have to lean into listening because whatever it is that that person is going through at that time, it may not sound like it's logical or reasoned that they've gone through it in the same way that you have, but you're a different person and so you are going to be experiencing it from a different lens.

So what you have to do is tap into their lens, understand what has really led them to where they're at and let them share as much of their story as they want to share and don't focus on. I have to get this person help right now. I have to know all of the things. How do I even navigate this conversation? Don't put all that weight on yourself because just even having that person opening up to you, that might be something that they've never done before.

So just that moment is huge and supportive in and of itself. And by you being an empathetic listener and just being showing your support through ways that you're listening ways that you're engaging is more powerful to that person going through that at the time than you even realize.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

So really, we just need to be listeners and in fact, you know, I, I am in this space and in this work, but really what I think that it takes to be a suicide prevention expert or in that moment expert is honestly just to be a good person that is leaning into that empathy, like I said, and listening to what that person has to say and thank you for that and to our listeners this the, the week after

this episode airs, we'll have an episode about with Rachel who we actually do like a role play at the end of the episode about how to be that listener and actually how to work.

Jenn Junod

Like when someone brings up something tough, how to just listen. So that is definitely something I would highly suggest checking out because this goes 100% into what Louisa is talking about and just being there. And that is another topic that keeps coming up and coming up.

Now that we've kind of talked about just how to have this, like to have this conversation, how to have this conversation. I'm gonna reel us back some of, hey, Louisa, thanks for joining us again. And so how did you get into what you do?

Louisa Rocque

Yeah. That's a great question. And you know, it's not like I just dreamed of this being my position because truthfully, I don't think that anyone really wants to do this work in the sense that like I have a connection, I lost a friend to suicide in high school or right after high school. And the way that one of my board members tells me is like this is a family that you never really would have thought that you would have been a part of or never wanted to be a part of.

But now that you're in it, it's just such a supportive community. And truthfully being involved in this work has been so powerful to even my own healing process and my own grief journey that it has been truly amazing because not only just myself and the work that I do, but everyone that I'm surrounded with, with my board members, my volunteers, everyone has turned that grief into passion and action because we know that this is preventable.

We know that there is a lot that we can do to inform people on warning signs and how to support just like what we're doing today. And so all that became really important to me. And although I never thought that this to be my dream job, it really is, I enjoy what I do every single day and I know that I'm making a difference. So it has become fulfilling in my life, purpose, truthfully.

Jenn Junod

Wow. And that's the first thing that came to mind with that is if to our listeners, if anybody wants to check out a bit more about my own story or the intro episode, episode one, definitely does go into that a lot more about my, my own struggles in this and with the thought of that this is a family, this is a supportive family. Yet we definitely want to work on the preventing suicide and finding those warning signs.

I big question because I've, you know, been in it. You don't really see what the warning signs are, especially for people that are very outgoing because so many people have in my, in my own life where they think I'm just happy, go lucky and you know, shit never goes wrong. And I'm like, my partner, Tyler can see me downward spiral and like my close friends have, but so many other people are like, oh Jen's fine, she's outgoing, she'll reach out she talks to everybody and yet I've before

Tyler, I, I didn't, that's the easiest way to say it is. I didn't and I had to come up with my own toolbox of how to get myself out of those deep, deep, dark places. So, what are those warning signs? Especially for outgoing people? For introverts for everybody? Could you share with us what that looks like?

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I think that that's really important. And I also want to, after we're done talking about this to get back to that toolbox because I think it's important to share what some of your own tools are if you're OK with doing that because yeah, it also help support other people and come up with their own ideas because truthfully it's not a one size fits all.

We're all very different people and all of our stories are very unique. And so what would work for each of us is very individualized as well. But, you know, warning signs, there are a lot of common denominators and when we normally are talking about warning signs, we're talking about this human to human interaction, understanding the nuances of someone understanding when their behavior starts to change or if they're starting to talk a little bit differently, like you notice something different in their speech and the way that they're talking about things like, oh, I just can't wait until all this goes away or until I'm done or any statement like that that doesn't necessarily sound like they're actually talking about suicide, but it's a little convoluted. It's really important that we dig a little bit deeper into that.

And I also think that it's really important too that if we are indeed talking to someone who we think is addressing suicide and thinking about taking their life, we need to ask that full on what does asking them directly look like? Yeah. So if you were to ask someone, are you thinking about hurting yourself that can look a multitude of different ways?

But if you're saying, are you thinking about taking your life, are you thinking about killing yourself? Are you thinking about ending your life? Those are very clear with intention if a person says yes or no. And so it is important to make that distinction when you're talking to someone, even if it's not a right away, you know, you don't have to dive directly to the deep end and go into that question.

But I think it's important to get there. So you are clear in that conversation of what that person is talking about because, you know, my dad often tells me that what we think in our head can be very loud, but it's not as loud to everyone else. And so it's important that we are really just understanding exactly what that person is saying so that we know exactly how to support them.

Jenn Junod

And with that to follow that up on using our our listening tools and being there for someone. At what point do should we reach out to someone else? Like, hey dude, you know, my buddy over here is thinking about taking their own life or starting to game plan this like when do we call in the professionals for backup?

Louisa Rocque

I think at any point if a plan is in place or if a person is very serious on their intention, I think we need to get the person help as soon as possible. And we also need to take any statement like that very seriously. So I wouldn't delay on that thinking, ah, next week it'll be better. They'll be out of it. Even if a person has said it nine times over and not necessarily followed through and made an attempt. It's very important that you take that statement so seriously that you can connect

them to resources right away. And also just to realize that even for yourself as a supportive friend that it's ok to reach out for help, there's the crisis text line which is really, really helpful for people who don't necessarily have the courage to call directly and they can just text someone and even being a friend who is supporting someone who's struggling.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

You can also text them and ask them for help and advice and they will respond back and let you know exactly what to do and thank you for that and for all of our listeners on the youtube version of this, the text number and the phone number to call for suicide prevention in the US will be listed on the screen the entire time.

Jenn Junod

It will be in the show notes on all the podcast platforms. And we will be posting that on social too now for the because we do have listeners all over the world, which I'm very grateful for. We will be starting to list those in our resources. And so that way you at least know some options to be able to reach out to because it is different in each country. So I just wanna call that out that we at least for the US because we are us based that will be listed on the screen.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah. And also just to jump in there really quickly too that I am so excited that the new 988 number will be implemented in 2022 June of 2022. And what that will do is take the place of the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline because not everyone has that number memorized.

I mean, I know I don't necessarily even have it memorized. It's in my phone though. So I know where to go to, but just to be able to call those three numbers 988 and it'll work very similar to 911 that will be very huge in getting more people connected and faster.

Jenn Junod

Thank you everybody for tuning back in to Louisa's episode. We did start recording last week and we had a lot of technical issues. So it is Monday and we are recording again for any of those watching on youtube. We do have different backgrounds and different outfits because way too complicated and inauthentic if we try to match everything so true.

Louisa Rocque

And I appreciate you being so flexible, Jen because, you know, now is a time period where we do have so many technical issues and we're relying on, you know, all of our technical spaces and tools and so to be flexible, just put me at ease. And that helps tremendously when we're doing all of this work. Because, you know, I think I often tell my friends that we have, I have seven different jobs I have being an employee, being a, a mom, being a wife, you know, an advocate, a family member, a

friend and then self-care is at the bottom, right? And we have to be better, we have to be better at prioritizing ourselves at other times because, you know, we it's the stereotypical saying of you have to put that oxygen mask on yourself first before your kids. It's so true in the sense that if we don't put ourselves in, in higher up in that order, then we can't do all of those other jobs.

And I wish that I had, you know, the amount of time in a week to do seven times 40 of all of those jobs to do them all perfectly. But I can't. And so at the times when I can't, and I end up putting myself last, it's just about being gentle with ourselves. You know, because if I had put so much pressure on my self to figure out what that same outfit was that we were wearing the other day before we had technical difficulties and to be in that same space and to do all this other stuff, it just would have further pushed myself down the line because I was trying to do so much better in all of those other things. And so you being flexible is amazing for putting me at ease. And I just think that sometimes we have to celebrate the small wins.

Jenn Junod

Agreed, agreed. And that's something that I absolutely appreciate as well because it allowed me to be able to be put at ease too. And the fact that when we talk in so many of these episodes like to our listeners as a heads up, I record between 3 to 5 episodes per week and, and the majority of them, we, we'll say at least two a week are postponed because of me or because of the guest because life just gets in the way. And we've, I've had a guest where I had to re like move her recording four

times. I have no idea why it just happened to be her and, and she was just like, hey, like I, I get it like it's life like if this continues to happen, let's just like, look at doing it in the future because it's also where we need to have our like self compassion and we also need to respect other people's boundaries and have our own boundaries. And I just really appreciate that. She showed me that with kindness, which is different for me.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of episodes that you're doing every week and on top of your job and, and this is another job to add to that list. And so it is just about being flexible. And I think creating that space allows us to show up and give everyone who's listening the best that we can when you're not as flexible with things.

I think it tends to tense people up more. Maybe they're not able and willing to share as much as they want to share and be real and with a podcast with a title like yours, I think you just need to have that real human side of things shine through and you do a great job with that.

Jenn Junod

Thank you, Louisa. And that is a huge reason why we start all these off with conversation instead of just diving in. Well, you and I kind of in our previous episode did totally just dive into that deep shit. And it's like, hey, let's talk about suicide. Not normally something that happens and some people you just bond with that way so quickly that you don't, you know, you vibe. Well, and by the way, just an update for you.

And since we were started talking about it, I totally did buy a ticket to your TED talk and for our listeners, her TED talk will be available in probably January February 2022 which I will definitely be posting on our resources page and in her episode page at the bottom too because shout out to Louisa for getting on and getting a TED talk. That is hard work.

Louisa Rocque

Thank you. I really appreciate that. And you know, it's kind of a funny story. I just did a blog post for them about this. But when I first applied, I, so obviously, since I work in the space of suicide prevention, I wanted to do something along the lines of mental health and suicide prevention and being on that stage, sharing my story, sharing my voice.

And when I, when I first applied, this was my very first application, no idea what I was doing, but I was just gonna go for it. And of course, I had a coach on the side who was helping me and giving me some tips, which was really great, but still it's the first one. So I'm not, you know, I'm not fine tuned in this process. It's just a learning curve and the stage was so important to me because my, one of my really good college friends and roommates had lost her mom at a very early age.

And so she cares a lot about mental health and suicide prevention. And the stage is actually named after their family's foundation that also cares to better the community and really focus a lot on mental health. And so I created a supplemental video and sent that in and I waited every single day for a response. Like I was checking my email refreshing my email waiting to see if something came through when actually I got a rejection was the first thing that I saw and I saw that and I

started picking myself apart. I was wondering, did I say this wrong? Did I not do this? Did I not focus on this? Maybe I just wasn't a good fit. Maybe I'm not cut out for this, right? So there's all this self doubt, disappointment, even embarrassment like for myself, you know, and then about two weeks later I get a call and I'm thinking as soon as I pick up the phone, why are you calling me?

I already got your rejection letter. I don't know if I even wanna hear this but maybe it'll give me some closure or help for maybe doing this another time and trying and and reapplying for something else when actually they first apologized and said we are so sorry, but we sent you the wrong letter and we're wondering where you have been because we've been thinking about your application so much and we're wondering why you haven't shown up to anything.

And then we realized that we sent the wrong letter to you. And so of course, I danced in joy. I was super excited, but then it was it kind of became this beautiful gift to me that I thought if only I had a split screen, right? A split screen of them talking about me all saying yes, this is a great application. We can't wait to see her on this stage. This is a really good message to then me being like I'm not good enough, I've been rejected.

And so my point with that is I think that we generally tend to create this narrative in our heads. That isn't really reality that we're so quick to tear ourselves apart to jump to the worst of things when that's not actually what other people are seeing on the other side of it. So we just have to fully believe in ourselves and then people will really give us the chance.

Jenn Junod

Agreed. And I, I love that story and it's so relatable. I and it's something I really want to, to follow up with that is so many people are think that others are overnight successes, right? Like they don't see the hard work that goes into it or you know, know what other failures that they had before it. And as a heads up, y'all I have a failed podcast.

Well, I loved it. It was called Greater Than it's still up on itunes. Maybe I can figure out how to get it to Spotify. Like I'm gonna keep it up forever. I had a co-host named Daa. She's phenomenal. She comes from a journalist background. I come from a fuck it. I'm gonna wing it and have a conversation like I don't know what I'm gonna ask them, but I'm just gonna ask them.

And so the dynamic was so beautiful and after our first season, we weren't able to continue it yet. Everything that taught me, he is helping me with this podcast. Me going from, you know, being in sales sales leadership to starting over as a videographer intern taught me so much to be able to do this podcast. Like there's so many failures, guys like and ladies and everyone, y'all, I need to stick with y'all.

But the co the company, my, my real job is out of Texas. So I started using y'all. and it, it has taught me so much because there are so melody failures before this to be able to get to this point where I know how to do this. And I and I got a lot of pushback on this podcast in the fact of, are you sure you can do two episodes a week? And I'm like, you know, I don't know, it is a lot, I have a team that, like, you know, says Jen, you're trying to buy it off way too much and yet there's also a driver in me.

That's like, no, I gotta keep going. I gotta go because there's so many stories to share with so many people that applied for this podcast that I would be if I just did one a week, that would be just the initial people that applied, that wouldn't be all the other people that, you know, after they hear this message wanting to join and be part of the podcast too. And as a heads up y'all, I, I record like 3 to 5 episodes per week.

Well, in the last podcast I recorded one per week if I was lucky because I didn't know where my next next guest was coming from. So there's so much learning there that doesn't always show up when someone is quote unquote successful. I still have plenty of failures in this. And I can only imagine, you know, as you said, you have seven jobs, it's always a learning experience and failure is good. Not failure is bad.

Louisa Rocque

Right? Yeah, I think sometimes we have to take those failures and use them as fuel, right? Because I don't know if I, if I were, if I were just given a TED talk, I don't know if I would have appreciated it as much as the road to get there because it has been a road. I didn't even dream this for myself. I've listened to, to Ted talks for years and never really thought that that would be me up on stage.

But when I finally started to actually believe in myself and it is, you know, we're a result of all of our experiences, both good and bad. Both you and I sitting in here talking about our conversation today were a result of every experience that we've had in the past. And so if I were just given good positive experiences, I don't know if I would have that full appreciation or if my message would even be the same because I haven't had that road to get there.

It was a completely different road. So I think that we, we learn from our failures in order to be successful. And I think that we also learn in that process to believe in ourselves more that even if other people may not believe in us, that other people may not have taken a chance on us that if we hold that within ourselves, that holds more power than I think anyone else even saying that they believe in us.

Jenn Junod

It, it does and just something that we started talking about on on Friday that I am very curious because in a lot of these episodes, it's been the tactile function of how, how to do something, not just the go do it, it's the how to go do it. And we started talking about tools in our toolbox and yes, IE even for myself. So I am diagnosed a DH D dyslexic anxiety, depression, bipolar type two. And there is definitely times where I still have panic attacks.

I still deal with my trauma. I, you know, there's days that I really, really struggle with yet, you know, having the tools in my toolbox, really help in the fact of when I am feeling really down on myself, how to bounce back. And I'm curious, what tools do you have in your toolbox that you like to use? And I'll share a few of mine as well.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I mean, I think for me, it, you know, II I like to define that as self-care really because it, I think self-care allows me to be successful, like I said, in all of those other jobs and even the job for myself and taking care of myself. And so I think one thing that I think about with that is that it's not a one size fits all even for me, like not every day is the same.

And so my toolbox changes from time to time. So there are certain days where working out is a huge tool in my toolbox, right? It could be just walking outside getting some sunshine, even if it's not like a vigorous workout, it's just moving and finding that to almost be like a meditation of not trying to think about all of my to do list at that time.

And being overwhelmed by everything, but just kind of letting go and being in that moment. Right. But then there are other days where I just don't have the time to do some of those things. So it could be reaching out to a friend and just getting some positive energy that maybe I don't have that day. But I'm just trying to fill mine up by receiving some of theirs.

It also could be taking a shower certain days we've been in the pandemic where I've been having to, I have twins that are three years old and so taking care of my boys and then also working and doing all of these other things. I don't even have time for myself on certain days. So I'm like, you know what, I am going to enjoy this shower right now, the sensory of just feeling the water and just kind of like enjoying every part of that process because that process is mine in that moment.

And so that's what I feel like some of my tools really are even though that's not like a clear cut answer of my tools are XY and Z it changes, but I would say that those are like the times that I try to redefine what that toolbox looks like for that day. So what about you? I would love to hear what some of your tools are.

Jenn Junod

I'm, I'm giggling at your shower thing because like to me with, with the fact that, you know, this is how I used to think about things is I'm like, oh, well, you're a mom. So you have to take care of your household. You have to do all of this stuff. Like, it makes sense for you not to be showering every day or have time and that kind of stuff. And I would say for self care for me, it's kind of the opposite.

I don't shower every day, guys just like owning that. If I go more than two days, I gross myself out unless I'm camping. And I don't camp very much, but I realize that, you know, for myself some days it's showering every day, some day. It's like that for some reason, it just seems a little too much for me. I get a lot of sensory overload, which is, I, I normally feel it when I'm walking through a crowd or going to many places or driving.

I'm not great at driving and this became 10 times worse after my craniotomy that I really get sensory overload. So sometimes it's when Tyler and I are out doing something, it's just grabbing onto him and shutting my eyes and taking a few deep breaths. When I'm by myself. Sometimes it's just like finding a wall where I can shut my eyes and breathe or finding my way out of a crowd.

Like it, it's different for me each time. One thing that my therapist has really taught me is I'm working through, going through E MD R therapy, eye movement, desensitization repetition. We're going with a hard question mark on that one, but sounds great. Right. She has what's called tapping. So when things get overwhelmed and just shut my eyes, take a few deep breaths and tap, that does help.

It doesn't always help though. So, for myself, it's a lot of it changes every day. I also can be very part of bipolar. Type two is something that I learned about bipolar type one. And bipolar type two is bipolar. Type one is when they have highs. It's more of like this grandiose high, like they are on top of the world, they can do absolutely everything. and, but they still on the back end would get really depressed afterwards. Bipolar type two is very similar. Although instead of feeling on top of the world, it'll be, I'm more focused at work. I'm more energized. I can do so much more in my day. I still get the symptoms afterwards of the same depression where I stay in bed for a whole day. I can sleep 16 hours surprises me that I can sleep that much.

But sometimes that's what self care shows up for me. Sometimes it's yoga, sometimes it's no yoga, sometimes it's going and hanging out with friends. Sometimes it's permitting in my room under the covers, cuddling with a dog. And for myself, it's a lot of trial and error. I know one really big thing. And especially because we're talking about suicide and those type of things I still can get ideas and feelings that I don't necessarily like to deal with.

And one thing that's really helped is writing and writing out the feelings. There's some really, really dark poems or writings that I've had. Yeah, it really does help me get it out of my system. And so does my random stick art. It really helps too. And it's one thing that for listeners that may not ever experience this, how I'm feeling right now.

It's really hard for me to imagine that I would ever feel that low when I'm that low. It's really hard for me to imagine that I can ever get out of it. And that's a thing that I think a lot of people that aren't depressed or don't have anxiety or have never had suicidal tendencies don't necessarily experience because I have to remind myself that it's ok to feel this way and give it time instead of forcing myself out of it.

Like you can just get better. It's, it's not like I can magically get rid of my asthma. It's like, oh, it's ok, just start breathing totally. My lungs literally don't do that. And I think that I know we touched base on this a little bit on our previous episode. What are some preventive care that as ourselves, we can add to our toolbox for suicide prevention.

Louisa Rocque

I think, you know, that self-care of what we just talked about is so important. And it's funny because, you know, you said that it's almost the exact opposite of the things that I do. Right. Well, that speaks to it being different for everyone and that it really is not a one size fits all. However, when you were saying some of those things, I was thinking the common theme that I was picking up on both of our things that even though they're opposite, we have this common denominator that

it helps to center ourselves. And so I think it's important to find what helps you center yourself in the moment overall. And those two things in the moment, what might center yourself in the moment, what might center yourself overall might also be very different. But I think finding those things that can help center, you take away the heaviness of what you're going through at the time, take away everything feeling so overwhelming.

Sometimes when I think of people who deal a lot with suicidal thoughts and ideations is they have these two big kettlebells that they're holding right. And I think when we are talking about this, like self-care and centering yourself, it's almost like for that moment, you're just putting down both of those kettlebells and just not thinking about either for that moment.

And I think it's, you know, talking about how you don't understand the other place that you're, you know, you're in a, a good space right now that it's hard for you to even think about the, the bad space when you get to that space. Right. And if you, I think a lot of people have a hard time understanding what that's like if they've never experienced it before or when they are in a good place.

How was I ever in that dark place? Like you were saying, you know, when we think about the most, the toughest physical pain that we've ever been in, right for me, it's, you know, not that we're gonna go into details about anything. But when I was, you know, giving birth was crazy experience even being pregnant, all of that since I had twins, it was a lot in that heightened state of pain.

If someone were to stop and ask me for directions or talk to me about like, let's talk about da da da da da Xy and Z there is nothing else that I could have focused on in that moment other than that physical pain. And so when we're in that emotional pain, it's the exact same thing. It becomes tunnel visioned on that emotional pain. And it's very hard to see anything else outside of that.

And so I think people need to understand and grasp that concept that being in physical pain is the exact same as being in emotional pain. And we need to deal with physical crises the same way or we need to deal with emotional crises the same way that we deal with physical crises. Right? So I think it's important to understand that it's important to figure out what centers you, what helps with your self-care, both in the dark times and in the times that you are in a good space.

Right? And I think when we are in a good space or when you are in a good space, coming up with a safety plan so that when you do get into that dark space that you have something that you can call upon and even if that is sharing it with Tyler, sharing it with other friends that you can trust, so that if they start to see you go into that space, they know how to help get you out because that becomes important too that you have like a team of people that not that you're putting all that weight onto

them, but just that they have some of those tools too to know how to get you into a better space and help ease you on that road, even if you wanna be alone, still helping you to ease into that road and knowing that you're not alone in that moment because you have them on your side to help you through those times.

Jenn Junod

Agreed and thank you and to follow up on that, I know that I have a lot of support around me. And for, I really want to say this for those who go through these type of situations and for those who don't, you can have all the support in the world. It is still a mental disease, it is still a mental illness. It can still happen. I am fortunate enough that I have privilege of my life.

I am, you know, live a pretty good lifestyle. I've worked really hard to get here. I also know that I have a lot of achievements in my past and that, you know, like my trauma doesn't define me. That does not mean I will not have bad experiences and go to dark places. And I know I mentioned that a little earlier and I just on repeat on that one. It is not something that magically goes away for some people.

It does some people, it's temporary because of a life situation. Some people it is lifelong and it can get worse and it can get better. Medications can help, medications may not help, diet may help, diet may not help exercise, may help exercise, may not help. It is not to your point, Louisa. It is not a one size fits all to also something that you mentioned is there are some really dark moments that I've gone through recently that I don't know how Tyler got it through my head.

But when I, no matter what now through it, it's in my head before I do anything crazy. I have to tell him if it gets that bad, I have to tell him, I don't know why. I don't know how it's never been that way in my entire life. And there was a night that I wanted to do self-harm. I thought I deserved self-harm. And I, before going there it's full of tears and mumbling about a lot of stuff.

I handed him the tools I was going to use one for self harm. And this is really hard for him. At the same time, those who support us need support as well and really need to, we need to have that understanding that they're not always gonna do the right thing to support us because I know at least for myself just as my own self care is different on each day, on what's needed.

So is the support needed. And there's times where I just need Tyler to hug me and let me cry it out. There's times where I need Tyler to remind me that I'm a rock star or accomplishments that I've done or that this podcast will do good. And there's times where he tells me that and I still don't believe him. It's still such a journey and such a struggle and so different for each one of us.

And I, I appreciate that we're having this conversation about tools in our toolbox because it's since it is so different, one thing that I've, I've heard that does help a lot of people for panic attacks and getting out of that tunnel that you mentioned is using your senses, I'll put I'll actually probably make it a social media post, but it's basically where you describe to someone something that you feel, something that you see, something that you taste, something

that you hear and something that you smell. And I think of the fifth sense that was a little too. and that brings you a lot of times that will bring you more present in yourself.

Louisa Rocque

I think that's a really good point and a really, really good tool to have because again, that is almost another tool to just center yourself in that moment. And, you know, I'm, I'm really happy that Tyler knows a lot of those tools of what works for you and for, you know, other people too when you are, when you have someone that you're supporting that is going through that moment, try not to list everything that everyone who loves them, everyone, all of their accomplishments.

Like I know that that's worked for you in the past and that may work for some people. But generally speaking, research has showed that when you, the more that you try to like list off all of these things that people love them, da da da, all these things, it's overwhelming. So instead try to focus on like an upcoming episode for the podcast or things that you might be looking forward to do that are just small moments because if we're in an intervention with someone who is thinking about taking their life, we, or just even a mental health health crisis overall, right. Doesn't even have to be that, that to that step yet, but it could just be any mental health crisis. What you're really trying to do is just lessen the weight for that moment and keep them safe for that moment. And so it's not about long term planning. It's just about how we put some space in between thoughts and action.

And so putting space in between listening to why they've gotten to that point, right? Even all of that sensory stuff that you're talking about, there's someone there that's listening to that and, and just being a support instead of trying to just list off all of these things, they're really just showing you that support, showing you that they love you, showing you that you can trust them by just being there and being present.

And so that, you know, I I appreciate that you said all those things too and appreciate that you were vulnerable in sharing about your experiences because the more that we, I think we talked about this on Friday too, I mean, Friday feels like four years ago now that we have Halloween and all this other stuff. But, you know, it's, it really is important to share your story when you feel, ok, to share it that you're in a good space to do so because sharing, it helps others to become brave

enough to share their own story, brave enough to ask for help and just normalize these conversations so that we can decrease stigma about it because there still is so much stigma that surrounds all of these conversations.

Jenn Junod

Agreed. And thank you because II I feel it's very, very important for the our listeners to see that I don't have my shit altogether. I'm human, you know, like it's never gonna happen like I always have our shit. But yeah, like it doesn't help having like, you know, an Instagram you know, per perfect Instagram.

Although I will totally admit to everyone, I get that Instagram algorithms do not need pretty layouts anymore. But now that I have a reason to post regularly on my Instagram, it's such a small pleasure, but it makes me so happy, you know, a regular looking Instagram. Yeah, very odd.

Louisa Rocque

I know. And so I mean, I think that that's great. In fact, when I first applied for my TED talk, I wanted to do an Instagram versus reality saying that life is not this highlight reel that we're always seeing of other people. And so the fact that you've transitioned your Instagram to be authentically you in every part of that sense, like the good post, the not so pretty post, all of those different things that to me is more powerful than just a fine tuned Photoshop filtered all of these

perfectly curated posts to make it seem, you know, all of this picture because that's while it may look nice, it's not as inspiring. And if it is inspiring, it's not inspiring to the vision of what reality is, right? Like, it's not going to be. This life is not the highlight reel that we often see. And so we can't put out these realistic expectations that that's what we can all achieve.

You know, because all of those people who probably do have those perfectly curated posts do not have 100% of the times. Perfect days. Perfect hair days, perfect, you know, all of these things. So I love that you're keeping it real on your Instagram because that is so important.

Jenn Junod

It's, it's, it's fun because I did totally hire a photographer because I don't take good photos of myself. And so I did hire a photographer. And one of the things that her and I talked about was the fact that I'm a very goofy person. I make really awkward poses and she took pictures of those and I love them and I will be posting pictures of what my fat looks like because I'm human.

I, and it makes it, I'm like laughing in this photo because I'm like, this is so fun. I'm gonna poke my stomach and poke my arm and the same goes for, I took a picture of near the end where it was half makeup, half no makeup and then all night makeup because there are different. I definitely don't wake up like this guys like for y'all, for anybody listening. I do not wake up like this. I'm a hot mess when I wake up. So like I'm very jealous when people still have like the nice hair when they

wake up. And I'm like, I have really bad bags under my eyes and my hair is like this and it's, it's hard to be authentic and to have that lens. And I will say that is something that has taken many years is to match my outward self to my inner self. And since doing so I have been able to have, I don't put as much pressure on myself anymore, which I know a lot of the dark places I went to was because wasn't because of pressure from other people. It was pressure for myself.

Louisa Rocque

Absolutely. I mean, I think even about the my journey to the, the TED X stage and what I was telling you, like, I put so much pressure on myself and, you know, I, I think about that with so many different things and, and it takes, I think it takes a lot of practice to learn that skill that you now have, right? But I think about it, even when my kids were first born, I wanted, you know, you saw all of these people with pictures of their perfect families and the babies looking all cute and

everything is looking perfect. When I had twins, it is survival. It is not about the cute moments and matching and all of this perfectly curated moments. It is a hot mess because you are just trying to keep two humans plus yourself and your husband alive all at the same time. Right? Like not that I was responsible for my husband and everything that he did.

But you know, we were all trying to make it through those hard times and understand how to take care of. Now two humans on top of ourselves. And man, I actually now love the pictures where we are trying so hard to get amazing photos of our kids, but they're just screaming or one's running off and it's like a blur of them running that to me is funnier and it just is so normal and human that we have to take that in, right?

And yeah, when I was thinking about going up on the TED stage, I'm already thinking about my outfit and what I wanna wear and I know that there's pressure to even make that look good, right? But I'm not going to apply so much pressure on myself because I do also struggle with self image. I have my entire life and I still have yet to fully lose all of the weight that I had when I was pregnant with twins.

And but when I, when I actually look back at it and I think if I were to be up on that stage and have worked out every single day stuck to a perfect diet and how hard that all that would be getting up there, I still would probably pull myself apart for how I looked on that stage. But when I reflect on it, I'm actually more proud of who that person is no matter what I look like on that stage because it is internally me that has gotten me up there, not the external part of me that has gotten myself up

there. And so I am trying so hard to hold on to that even though I know it's really hard to do, but I'm trying so hard to hold that and remind myself of that, that when I look up at that person on stage, why rip myself apart because it's not also going to change the past moment that's happened. I'm not gonna go back and have the skinnier version of myself do that same talk, but I probably wouldn't be more proud of myself if I was skinnier doing that talk than versus how I am right now in this

very moment. So I think that we just, it's, it's a really a hard skill to do and something that I work on every single day. But the days that I feel better about it, I am just so much more confident in myself. I'm much more proud of myself. And so it allows me to be more real on Instagram and in life, you know, that authenticity of ourselves carries with us no matter what we do.

So, it's, I'm glad that you brought that up, I think, you know, again, it's really hard to do, but the more that we can practice it, the better that we can become at it, agreed.

Jenn Junod

And thank you. That is actually something. The second episode of the podcast is being the greatest pretender with Martha Mock. And she talks about how she was a world-famous makeup and hair artist and yet she felt so empty. And that is something that y'all, I, my previous work sent me to Europe for three months and I went from this is American sizes, but I went from a size 1012 to a size 46 while I was gone.

And the, it is the smallest I have been in my entire life and yet the entire time I was there, I felt empty. I felt fat, I felt unwanted and unneeded. And it was one of the most beautiful experiences in my life, yet one of the hardest experiences in my life because I didn't understand not living life for perfection. And even in my current job for the podcast for trying to fix things around the house, I mean, it's definitely a fine balance, but I say quite often fuck it.

It's good. Enough. Just fuck it like we're good. Like it's gonna go and if people don't like it, you know, they may not be my type of people. And that is something that was really hard yet takes tons of practice because there are times that I do get in my head and it's, there's an an expression that I've heard of. It went from living life. I, I'm gonna work on rephrasing this but it's, it's basically, I always thought of how everybody looked at me and always second guess everything I did

instead of trusting myself and not being in my head and actually enjoying the moment. And that is like a since my craniotomy experience, not a whole like I've done this my entire life and it took a lot of work to get there. And a lot of it is to our toolbox is being present with who we are instead of looking for that validation elsewhere, which is much easier said than done. I, something that I really wanted to ask you is how I, yes, you work with the prevention of suicide.

How do we recover after those attempts? And thank goodness they are attempts or, and another question that I just wanna make sure that we cover is how do we support families that unfortunately those who attempted it wasn't attempt it, it, they did have suicide. How do we talk about that? And how do we support that on both aspects?

Louisa Rocque

Those are very, very important questions and I really appreciate that you asked that. So when we think about families, one thing that a FSP has that is really amazing is called Healing Conversations. It's a program that we have throughout the nation. And you know, hopefully, as we expand more, we become beyond the American Foundation for suicide Prevention, but worldwide.

But there are other things that worldwide, even though it's not our foundation, that it's other people that are doing similar things. And so this program healing conversations is trained volunteers who have had a similar experience. So they are a lost survivor themselves and they now have become trained to talk with people who have had a recent loss.

And so if let's say, someone who lost their brother or a parent, whatever it might be, right, they could call in and say I would love to speak with someone. And here's my story. So then we pair them up with someone who is geographically around the same area as well as someone who has as many lenses as possible. That would fit that same story. Every story is different though, right?

But we do know that when we can pair someone up who has, have more of those shared experiences, it becomes easier to get resources from them to open up to them because automatically you start to understand that. All right, this person gets me even though this is a really hard time. This is a totally different experience than maybe what they had.

There are still some underlying things that are unifying those two people in that moment. And so they can either, you know, preco VD times they were meeting up in person now. It's a little bit more over the phone and via video. But hopefully we can go back into person soon and then for someone who has had, well, I guess I can also back up to and say that for other, for other resources for families.

I think finding a support group is really, really great. And on our website too, we don't have our official support groups, but any other support group that is out there, which oftentimes it is our board members and volunteers who have created them, you can type in your zip code type in how far away you would want your radius to be that to look for some groups.

And you can find all of the support groups that are available out there. And that has become really amazing because you can share the good times that you had with that person and keep the memory of them alive. Like I always talk about how it's really important to share stories of my friend and share stories of our loved ones who we've lost because you keep the spirit of them alive and you're also introducing them to new people throughout your life.

So it's, that's the best that you can do for keeping them with you as you move through new moments, right? But also the hard times too. And in you, when you're in a group and talking about that, you start to see what has helped with them, what has added to their toolbox, right? And so similarly, you can also find support groups for people who have attempted before.

And I think the biggest thing that you can do is if it is in your financial means or in your insurance to get a therapist talking to someone really, really helps. And I think finding a therapist is a process of like dating, right? It is.

Jenn Junod

Thank you. I was just about to say that.

Louisa Rocque

So it may not be a perfect match on date one, but you keep going. In fact, I had one therapist that I was like five minutes into it. Nope, this, I will never see you again. I will probably never talk to you again. And that's ok. It's, it's ok to understand that process and that might be frustrating if it's not what you want it to be within the first couple of tries. But I think it's so important to trust the process of it and know that that support is going to help you because it is an unbiased opinion. It's also someone who is trained who can provide that support for you and provide those resources to you. On our website. We have a whole list of other resources for people who have attempted people who are struggling. We even have a list of resources if you think someone's struggling, what you can do to help support them. And so I really encourage people. We'll add the links in for your podcast too. But I think it's really important for people to check those out.

Jenn Junod

And thank you for that. And going back to something you said about the therapist and it's like dating. I, I really do want to share this part because I've had therapists that make me made me feel crazy in the fact that when I was a teenager and that's some of my deepest darkest moments that I've ever had was being a teenager. I had therapists, tell me that I was lying about the abuse I was going through.

I had therapists. tell me that it's not that bad. I've had her therapist, tell me we'll just get your shit together. I've been to probably, oh goodness 30 plus therapists since I was a teenager with one or two sessions. And I only one of them until my therapist now has helped with in, in a good way. And it was a therapist that was through the church that I belonged to back then.

And he believed me and he also sought help for me in legal matters, for my protection and a all therapists are supposed to for your, your own safety. They're not supposed to tell you that you're crazy or that it's all your fault or, you know, just fix your shit. I didn't know that. So, you know, I was kind of like forced to go to therapy back then and he was the first one that really believed me.

And on that note, my current therapist is female and she has experience now, I'm gonna repeat that one. There is a big difference between having a female therapist and a male therapist and you gotta figure out what is best for you or a non-binary therapist because there, there are therapists that have backgrounds in all sorts of items such as, my current therapist has experience with trauma, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse.

So she understands what I'm going through. There's therapists that have history themselves and also the skills for suicide or self harm for addiction for sex trafficking or prostitution or there, there are so many things that we do have help out there yet it is like dating and we have to put in the work and we also have to be ready to get help.

Louisa Rocque

Right. Yeah, I think that's so important that last part of being ready because you have to be ready to receive that support, receive what those tools and resources might be. And you know, it, it really, there's no better way to put it other than it is like dating and you know, if if something doesn't feel right, don't stick with it. Why put yourself through that?

If what you're trying to do is better yourself and, you know, get some of those resources, you're probably not going to be listening to someone. You're like, I don't trust you. What you're saying sounds ridiculous. So I'm not gonna sit here and take what you have to say to me. Don't put yourself through that. And even if you know, you feel bad, almost like breaking up with a therapist.

Right. But sometimes you do have to break up with them because maybe it just, it was a good fit for a little bit and now it's not anymore. And so it is so important to think of that parallel because you just have to continuously find what is working for you.

Jenn Junod

Exactly. And there is, there is something to, sorry, it repeated. I could hear myself again for that one part.

Louisa Rocque

You just have something really great.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

So, I wanted to tell it back to you apparently.

Jenn Junod

there is, hold on now, I have to think about what I was saying. Oh, there is, there are we had it going so well, there are different types of therapy out there and those will be listed on the website, at least as many as we can list. and some of them are more talk therapy and you can have a therapist, you know, your entire life. Some of them are more immersive and you wanting and like, my therapist told me she's like, I'm not gonna see you more than a year.

I was like, what? She's like, that's what E MD R does. We're gonna work through your shit and you're, you're gonna not be so triggered afterwards because it's changing a trauma memory to just a memory. And I was like, bullshit. I don't believe you, but I'm willing to give this a try and she's actually been the best therapist and it's, it sounds weird but it was the vibe she gave off totally.

And that was a lot of therapists will do free consultations because of the vibe they give off. And so that way you can see if you vibe. Well, like dating, you know, if you want to have a zoom call before meeting up.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I wish that there was almost like a a match.com for therapists that you can just match up with people. See. Yeah. Right. That they're giving off and then try to work from there.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

But yeah, I mean, it, it really is important to do that shopping and to date around with therapists and, and on that note, I just wanna call out that my therapy for, for people that think that therapists are just all old white dudes and the p patriarchy and you know, like white supremacy and all that blah, blah, blah.

Jenn Junod

I just want to say that my ta my tattoo artist, my therapist has a ton of bad tattoos. Yeah, they, they kind of are when you go get a tattoo or a haircut, they, they therapist in their own way. My therapist has tons of tattoos, the coolest style and we cuss during therapy and she allowed, gives me the space to be me, which is really what I needed.

And there's weeks that I'm doing great and there's weeks that I can't figure out a huge problem in my life and she gives me amazing perspective. So please know there are so many different types out there and really thinking in with that because it's, it's hard to find a good therapist that matches your vibe.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, it's, it's so crazy that when we think about the, you know, the this image that we all society in general has created for so many different things, right? That we have an idea of what a therapist looks like. And if it doesn't fit that description that at first you're already judging, right? You know, it's, it's so it's crazy what this world does and how much we put into our brains. And so this again, this idea of just being authentic, like your therapist being authentic,

showing up in her tattoos, not trying to cover them up with sleeves or whatever, just letting it be who she is and owning her shit, which allows you to like I Yeah, I'm in, I'm now on board and you are gonna help also help me on my shit, right? Like that is I just love that. I love that. Your therapist is a real human not trying to be anyone else who society thinks that she should be. And that is allowing you to do the same thing.

Jenn Junod

It's just modeling that and, and that's also something that and thank you for that, that I found out by my through my own experience is I, one of the reasons I was so good at sales is getting to know people's life stories. I do that in grocery stores. I do that standing alone places. I don't mean to, it's just who I am. Almost. Every therapist I've had, I can get to know their life story before they've even gotten me to be vulnerable at all.

And that is one of the first things I told my therapist was, I can't know anything about you. Like I can't ask her about her tattoos. I can't ask her about like anything and she, she helps me hold that boundary and it's allowed me to go oh shit. I can't deflect and ask lots of questions about you. So I guess we'll do this and it, it's so cool because she also like, I like sitting on the floor.

So she brought in a floor pillow, she knows I like blankets. So she got me a blanket and I'm like, this is so cool. Like I feel secure enough talking to her that I'm able to work through my shit. And something that another episode will go through is that we, there's a huge difference between feeling safe and feeling secure because feeling safe even just saying that could really trigger us, right? And it triggers me sometimes because those who were supposed to keep me safe didn't and,

but being secure it makes me go oh OK. Cool. Like I can have this conversation here. It's a lot of learning and there are many episodes that we go in through therapy, talking about when to go see a therapist, a coach or a doctor. There are many episodes that, that you'll, you'll start seeing underlying things.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah. And I, I love that. I love that you're gonna break it out and say like here's this, this and this because there are so many different options out there like you're talking about. And I think when you were saying when you were explaining the environment that your therapist has created for you, it, it's, it is redefining the word safe. Although that's how she definitely wants to make you feel because she wants you to feel that, you know, she's trusted and that it is a safe space,

but that is very triggering words. So the way I like to see it is it's that you're seen that she is picking up on the things that work for you and that she is you know, making it very customized to be for you. And so that is making you feel seen. And I think when, you know, you have that great social skill of getting to know people and their life story right off the bat.

When it's in the, in, in the space of being with a therapist and someone who support, who's supposed to support you, I wonder how much of that is like a survival tactic almost that you're trying to deflected onto everyone else so that you don't have to share that it's safeguarding you and your story. And so you're, I wanna get to know you and I love that you actually identified that and then said, nope, I'm not gonna do this here because I know I see something in you that I want to have you be my therapist that I don't want to get to know a thing about you. So the fact that you were able to identify that and then kind of shut that off and put out that boundary right away is amazing. Like, let's celebrate that within you because that is huge. I don't know if everyone listening or myself.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

I don't know if I could have done that and, and thank you for that.

Jenn Junod

I've it's actually never been about not being, not sharing something about myself. You're right. It's been a, a safety mechanism because it's very weird and, but if IA I just have pure curiosity. So it is definitely just a, I'm not person like I'm just letting you know to anybody listening out there if we become friends and I go to your office or your house or somewhere where you have little boxes.

I have to open the little boxes. If you have drawers, I may open your drawers. I am annoyingly curious. Like I do want to say annoyingly because it annoys me that I want to Google half the world because I'm like, but why, why does it do that? I'm like a three year old. Was your boy probably do that. Yeah. So it is annoyingly curious. Yeah, I've also learned, it's two part, I'm annoyingly curious about people who want to know their backgrounds.

It's also the fact that if I get to know you and don't share anything about myself, you'll like me. I won't seem self-centered. I'll be, you know, you won't be able to hurt me because you don't know me. You're not someone that, that, that, that close and you'll dislike me because I make you feel better because I'm just asking tons of questions about you.

Yes, it is a coping mechanism that I found added in my peer curiosity was a toxic mix. And now I've learned that I'm not extroverted, I'm very, very introverted and it's ok to have those awkward silences. And I don't need to try to ask all these other people because I'm learning to be safe and secure within myself and that I don't have to put out all that energy for other people when I'm not taking care of myself.

So, back to the toolbox, that is another one that I had to learn that. Yes, I have pure curiosity but I can turn, I can kind of turn it off. Sometimes I just ask them a random, like one off question. Like, hey, those are really, really cool shoes. What's the story about it? I love that happen. I love that. Sometimes it gets the best of me I think.

Louisa Rocque

No, I think it's great. And I mean, you just, if you were to come over to my house, I know we live in different States and we're gonna hang out when I come to Denver. But if you were to come to my house, you would see that when it, what meets the eye is not what it actually is too. Like if you want the first, when you first step into my house, it looks like everything is in its perfect place.

And generally it, it pretty much is right? Like I keep a very clean space because the way that like one of my ways to just cope and kind of self-care is cleaning. And so if I have, I have all this chaos in my head so much happening all the time that if I am in a, a space that is picked up and neat, then I feel better. But what you don't see is if you like a curious person that you are, were to open up all of my closets and drawers.

It is a mess because I just need it out of my vision. Right. So it's just stuff thrown into all these different spaces, but it's out of my main space. So it looks really perfect when you first walk in. But you open up one drawer and you're like, wow, that's a lot of shit in there.

Jenn Junod

That II, I love that because I'm like the exact opposite. Well, I don't have clean drawers. Let's, let's just totally on that entirely. Would love if I was someone who cleans, I am the worst at cleaning. And I actually recently read a book that a lot of a DH D women specifically, don't really pick up on those type of things because it's just like, not a connection for us.

We're just like, oh, it's fine. And we kind of like, because when I clean and I do this, I'll start cleaning like the office and then I'm like, oh, but this goes in the bedroom and then I'll start cleaning something in the bedroom and then I go to the kitchen and I start cleaning something there. So nothing gets done very quickly. and it drives Tyler insane, but he's somehow learned to live with my mess.

I do clean though. Guys, I do. It's just not to like normal people's standards and that's something that I've had to learn with that. especially because being in a relationship is very difficult in the fact that it is constant work. And it's a mirror to learn more about myself such as learning how to be there for Tyler as well. And that's why there are so many episodes that we'll be having on different aspects on men's mental health.

And something to that I really did want to bring up is from my understanding is men's suicide rate is so much higher than women's suicide rate. And yes, we also have like the LGBT Q community and then you have different races and that can really break down over all men's suicide rates are the highest.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah. No, it's very true. And, you know, I think that it's really important to have those like, segmented conversations to really focus on each of those individual topics as their own topic because they're, again, just like, it's not a one size fits all. There are also different things that we can do for prevention. That of course, there are some unifying things across the board.

But when you break down to each of those different, topics and categories, there are other specific things that we can also do too. But, you know, I was just thinking going back to you talking about your A DH D and going into like all of the different rooms and putting something away and then getting stuck and doing that, I think that's oftentimes how I work like that's my computer is, I have 50 tabs open and I've started something and haven't finished.

But I also just really was thinking about how great that it is that Tyler, is that support for you? And that you have found that because when you get into a relationship it is not, you know, once you're very serious about that person, you know, everything about them. I've been married now for nine years, been together for 11 years, almost 12 years.

And I just still, we still learn more about each other every day and, and how to help each other during the hard times during the good times, how to still feel like we're dating, right? And I'm not trying to be on here or trying to give like relationship advice or anything, but just applying it to my own life of how crazy it is that as humans, we just are constantly evolving as people.

And I'm not the same person that I was when my husband and I first started dating or even when we first got married, just because so much in life has happened and has shaped who we are. And so it's just constantly learning about who that person is. Learning about those tendencies, learning how you can be a good counter to those tendencies, nuances the good, the bad, all of those things.

And that is, I just think I important in a relationship. So I just love that you were talking about Tyler and that light because it seems like he is just such a great support for you and, and I, I love it. I hope that I can meet him too when I come to Colorado.

Jenn Junod

That would be amazing. And the call out for myself is Tyler is such a huge support in my life. And I don't know what I would do without him. And something that I've learned is changing the victimization mindset to that I am strong enough and I need to up my auntie on support. And I think that we do go into other episodes about how to learn how to support men and how to be a better partner.

And there's, there's a lot to go into with all of that yet. I do want to call myself out that as much as I'm working on myself for myself. I also know that I, there are areas that I need to improve on and that's also he has taught me so much about love and being accepting about everything and having his own boundaries. That's also something I need to learn of not nitpicking.

I'm a nitpicker and that is, there's so much learning in relationships and I'll get off that soapbox and, and thank you for going there with me before we, we close out the episode. Is, is there any topics that we missed on that you really wanted to talk about?

Louisa Rocque

I think I first wanna maybe even apologize and I hope I didn't get us into two random tangents, but I just really enjoyed our conversation and all of the different places that it went and I think it is all very much intertwined. So I think we covered a lot of ground. I would love to come on again and do another episode. At some point. I know you have a ton of people that you're lined up ready to be on this podcast.

But I just appreciate you giving me the time giving a FSP the time to, to be on this podcast and give resources to people and to everyone who is listening and listen through our entire time talking. I appreciate all of you as well. These are very important conversations and I hope that it spawns even more conversations for other people to have.

Jenn Junod

Definitely. And thank you and I, a big thing that I'm working on saying it more of the episodes is talking about shit you don't wanna talk about requires building that relationship and vulnerability and that's what random tangents do. Yes. You to our listeners, you're more than welcome to fast forward through them. But a lot of times they do have connection because conversation is not just one straight line, it is the ebbs and flows of being able to give and take about each

other's stories to be able to dig deep and talk about this Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About. Totally. So please, please please listeners, like, listen to that part and if you have questions or wanna learn more about that side of things, let me know. I will find somebody that is amazing at conversations and we can talk about that.

And Lo Louisa before again, before we close out. Apparently, I really like that phrase. Any anything that you would like to share with our listeners of words of encouragement.

Louisa Rocque

Yeah, I think, you know, just check out the resources that we have that will include in the podcast. And if you are starting to notice any signs in someone who you think might be struggling with mental health or thinking about taking their life, please reach out. You know, we, we do have a saying that we say at a FSP two to check in even on your strong friends because I know everyone has good days and everyone also has bad days and it's just so important that we be there for each other and

especially in the last, you know, almost two years that we have had such this digital divide between people. We really need to provide more support and connectivity to one another and just check in on how people are doing and it doesn't need to be a deep serious conversation. Although if it goes there, that's fine if it goes there.

But you know, just how are you, how are you doing, starting off with any conversation like that? I think, and just really lending that support and checking in with people, I think goes a long way and will just help us all as a cultural in general if we just are more mindful about checking in with each other.

Jenn Junod

Agreed. And thank you. And what are you grateful for?

Louisa Rocque

I am very much grateful for this podcast and meeting you. I know that that sounds really silly. But at the same time, I just love that we live in two different states. We have totally different stories. I don't know if we ever would have met normally. And the fact that we have connected this way, I'm grateful for this connection and for meeting you.

The fact that you're gonna be in the audience at my TED talk is awesome, which I'm also really, really grateful for that and it just is so cool. It just shows like the power of human connection and how much it means. And so I can't wait until I can actually give you a hug in person because I just appreciate you.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

So thanks Jen Yay.

Jenn Junod

You are welcome. And I, I should have bought the tickets when I originally was thinking about it because I could have gotten first or second row and now I'm in the third row, but it's ok, like, you know, I still got the VIP.

Louisa Rocque, Jenn Junod

I, I'm still pretty close so I can your purple hair, it's gonna calm me down just being on that stage.

Jenn Junod

Y yes and you'll, you'll see me in glasses. And for the audience real quick, I never wear my glasses during recording because you can see the ring light and you can't see anything.

Louisa Rocque

I love the glasses though.

Jenn Junod

They're so cute to say but that's why in my pictures on my on Instagram, I'm wearing my glasses is because I'm blind as a bat, so I just don't wear it for the episodes. And I am grateful for just first off Louisa, just as a human. She's amazing. I I'm also really grateful for the challenges we get. That might sound really weird.

It teaches us so much by the time like when we have to go through it again and to navigate and to learn from each other that our challenges and how we handle our challenges, make us who we are. Absolutely. And I'm very grateful for that. Well, Louisa until next time. Thank you for joining a Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About.

Louisa Rocque

Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Take care.

Jenn Junod

Thank you for listening to Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About and being a part of the change from Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About to Shit2TalkAbout that being said, make sure to subscribe, like share on all of our social medias. It is shit. The number two talk about we're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and on youtube and on youtube just as a heads up, we could really use the likes and comics and subscribing and please please please, if you believe in this podcast and what we're doing and being about the change, please go hit up our Patreon, which is Shit2TalkAbout and help donate and contribute to the podcast. It starts at $2 a month and you can be check out the different levels and be one of the shit talkers and being somebody that changes shit, you don't want to talk about to Shit2TalkAbout and on the rest of the platforms, make sure to join the conversation. Hit us up, let us know what you thought about in the episode. We really do want to make this for you. It's Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About. So what shit do you want to learn about? What shit's been too hard to bring up? Is it too hard to bring up to your parents, to your partner, to a loved one to yourself? Let us know if you want to be a guest on this podcast, please go to Shit2TalkAbout.com and go to contact and you'll see the guest form down at the bottom. We hope to hear from you soon and thank you for joining. Sh!t You Don’t Want to Talk About.