S1 E24 Shit2TalkAbout Pregnancy Loss with Sharna Southan
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Jenn Junod
Hey, Shana, thank you for joining. Shit. You don't want to talk about today, please introduce yourself and what shit you want to talk about today?
Sharna Southan
Hi, I wanna firstly, thank you for having me here today. and giving me this platform, this opportunity to talk about the shit that doesn't get spoken about enough. So my name is Shana. I am a pregnancy loss coach. So essentially what I wanted to bring awareness to was the fact that you know, pregnancy loss isn't it isn't spoken about enough in mainstream society and women obvious like a lot of women actually feel like they aren't able to, to grieve their babies. So, you know, we were
trying to conceive for such a long period of time. And even that, that, topic itself isn't, sort of do, doesn't have enough awareness around it either. So I really just wanna speak about, you know, the whole trying to conceive process and how that can really take a toll on you and as well, like, you know, our first pregnancy ended in loss. so how that really does affect yourself, mentally, physically, spiritually, you know, moving forward in your life as well.
Jenn Junod
This is definitely shit we gotta talk about and it's like, damn dude, like even just thinking about it, I have known people that have gone through pregnancy loss and who have been trying and as someone that hasn't necessarily gone through that, it's always just so heartbreaking because they may tell me but they're not gonna, a lot of them won't talk to other mothers that have gone
through something similar and you, I don't even know where to start. What, what like what happens when that happens? Like what was your first emotion when that happened to you?
Sharna Southan
So I honestly felt like the everything I had believed to be true. My whole entire life was a lie. I felt like everything I had been told pregnancy would look like was a lie and I felt like I was the only woman going through this. I had no idea what it was that I was actually experiencing. So I was, I was blindsided. I didn't know what to expect for myself and because you do feel like you're the only person that is going through this, you feel like there isn't anyone out there that you can
speak to that is going to really deeply understand your story and your emotions and like what it is that you are, you know, trying to process, without the other person, you know, dismissing your, dismissing your emotions and diminishing what it is that you're what you're going through. So, you know, it really was, it really was that I was kind of blindsided by it.
I like you're in school and you get told that, you know, you have to wear a condom otherwise you're gonna fall pregnant. So I'm like sweet, falling pregnant is easy. And then, you know, we were trying to conceive for like five years and I'm like, why is this not working? Like what is going wrong? And, you know, at that point, I was kind of really, I guess, being quite hard on myself.
and the fact that, you know, this is, you know, what we're designed for and, you know, it's not working. And then when we experienced the pregnancy loss, like our first, our first pregnancy, I was like, this is, this means I'm infertile. Like what else? I, you know, I honestly thought that I would never be able to have kids because it was my first pregnancy and I'm like, we've been trying for so long and this is how it's ended.
This means that I'm, I'm never going to be able to have kids. so like there's so much, so much information out there that you can't access by, you know, your normal mainstream like GPS and stuff like that. They don't tell you, especially when you are going through it. They don't tell you what to expect. They didn't actually tell me that, you know, it wasn't until I got to the hospital after I'd been, I had been so part of my miscarrying process was that I was experiencing contractions
and I was actually bleeding to the point that I was passing out. but we googled everything because we, we thought that it was all part of the process. And I'm like, but what is this pain? Like, I've never felt this pain before and I'm like, it's not just a period, it's not period cramps like, like what they tell you at the G when you see your GP after it's all happened.
So, you know, I didn't, I didn't know what to do. And when, so I waited like on the, it was like on the third day, going to see my GP and they ended up calling an ambulance, for me straight away and the ambulance officer said, you know, why didn't you call sooner? And I said, well, I didn't know I didn't know, like I honestly that there's just that there's a gap in the, in the information that is actually provided for you and you know how on what to actually expect when you're going through
it. But then also on the other side of it too, like when you come home from the doctors or you come home from the hospital, there's no support there either. Like you come home and you're, you're on your own. And you know, I was told one in four pregnancies end in loss when I was in hospital. And I was like, well, if that's the case, why do I feel like I'm the only person going through it?
And why is there not more information out there available? And why is there not more support out there available? it's just, you know, like it really baffles me that there's, it seems like it's almost like they don't want to talk about it. The medical system even doesn't want to talk about it and I don't understand why.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And, and for the audience fast forward to now she does have a little one in the background that may come say hi and is as adorable as can be. So this, this is ending in some good news yet, the process itself, as Sharna said is not something that I talked about and that many people are prepped for either because, I've heard in other situations and,
maybe you could shed light on this of how even just you said five years of trying, that's gotta do a lot, not only to your body but to your relationship. What did that look like?
Sharna Southan
Yeah. So it kind of, it really took a toll in the sense that it took all of the intimacy and everything away from our relationship because then, you know, in my mind, I don't know about my husband. Probably not so much, but in my mind, I was consumed with just wanting to have a baby. So it was like, I was, you know, constantly checking my ovulation windows like I was constantly checking things and then I was doing pregnancy tests and, you know, it really, it affects you mentally as well
as physically like and then when you get your period, you're so disheartened that you actually got your period. Like you're like, oh no, I'm not pregnant. So, you know, it just, it really started to affect our relationship in the sense that we weren't intimate for the sake of being intimate. We were intimate to try and make a baby. And it just really wasn't, I mean, you choose this person because you love them and you have that usually you have that spark and it's playful and it's fun
and, but it takes all of that away. And, you know, one thing I'm one thing our miscarriage taught us was that really just to throw everything out the window really introduce that play and that fun back into my relationship and stop focusing so much. I ended up throwing away all of the ovulation, kits all of the pregnancy tests. I, yeah, I threw everything like literally off to the side because I was like, you know what I had needed to change my mindset around the whole trying to
conceive process. We had done, we had gone to the specialist the first time and to be honest, I felt like that was for me, it was short cutting the process because I had a lot of underlying health issues that I wasn't aware of that actually were, were hindering my ability to fall pregnant. One of or a couple of them was that my hormones weren't balanced.
I had literally no progesterone. It was not even on the charts. And now knowing that progesterone is actually needed within the 1st 1st stage of the pregnancy for implantation, I'm like, well, I don't have any, like my body's not producing it. So how am I even meant to carry a baby? But I wasn't aware of how that was going to affect me because again, the education isn't there.
So we without really doing anything like physically for my health, we went and saw the specialists which then, you know, he put me on medication. And what, what that was meant to do was, you know, increase my my egg count. But then I was like, well, it's only going to spread what I don't have even thinner. And I'm like, really, like, I hadn't even thought about my internal health, before trying to conceive, which is where I think a lot of the education has to start is before you even try
and con try to conceive your baby. you know, my iron was low. I mean, there was a, quite a few other things that were out of whack at the point where after I, after I miscarriage, I, I dived deep into all of that, which is also now what I bring awareness to with my work. But then, you know, this all needs to be done before, before women try to conceive. And it's not just, it should be in the sex education really. Like, it's not just about wearing a condom.
Jenn Junod
Yeah.
Jenn Junod, Sharna Southan
Yeah, there's so much more to it.
Jenn Junod
And, I know this is totally going down like AAA side track. But how do you even improve your pede pedri gesture? Yeah, I can't talk today. But yeah, that one.
Sharna Southan
Yeah. Well, obviously it's something that you have to do with your GP. it's, there are supplements that you can take, progesterone, like tablets and things that you can do to help, boost, boost that for yourself. I can't remember exactly what, what happened with me to get it back up. And going, I think it was that I remember going on a lot of different supplements at the time.
So I'm assuming a lot of that is a blur, but there are definitely supplements that you can take, which are purely progesterone. There are the other things that you can do with your GP that are purely progesterone. So, there were ways and obviously I was able to get my hormones back into balance because, you know, I had been on the pill since I was from when I was 13 years old.
So I never knew because my period was so out of balance back then. They put me on the pill straight away. They didn't look to actually figure out what it was that was, you know, maybe underlying that it was just like I will put you on the pill that'll fix it. So I never really knew my body, I never really knew about hormones and I never really knew what even what ovulation felt like until I had stopped all of that.
So it was all such a learning process for me as well, even to know what it felt like with my body when I was ovulating without doing the ovulation strips, like to really tap in and to feel it and to know what it felt like for me. But yeah, it's definitely something like if that is obviously, you know, something that could be going on with your body.
It's definitely something that to explore with your GP. the underlying things that could potentially be causing the infertility. There are I guess integrative GPS out there that can actually help with looking at you holistically rather than just giving you like a band aid solution.
Jenn Junod
And real quick, just for our US listeners, I'm 90% sure.
Jenn Junod, Sharna Southan
A GP is a guy now here or an obgyn, I will Google it practitioner like a doctor.
Sharna Southan
Just your normal doctor. OK.
Jenn Junod
Most women when they get pregnant, at least in the US, they go to a gynecologist specifically, so I'm curious about how that does differ between the US and Australia because listeners, if you can't tell by Shana's accent, she is Australian.
Sharna Southan
So we see a doctor initially for I guess the initial diagnosis of being pregnant. and then at a certain stage, it might be like the second trimester maybe, although you do actually get access to Obgyns like the obstetrician through a hos through the hospital system here. So, yeah, so initially with the initial diagnosis of being pregnant, you go through just your normal doctor which is
then who I went back to after after our miscarriage to find how I could in like how I could really improve my body and to the best of its ability to be able to fall pregnant again.
Jenn Junod
Did you did your doctor ever start to mention this before you became pregnant or, and maybe like, you know, I know that my doctors have told me stuff and I'm like, yeah, whatever, I'll deal with it later and then, well, I don't do you remember if your doctor said anything like that or was it something that you had to go specifically ask for?
Sharna Southan
It was? So I ended up switching JP S because I saw JP who referred me to a fertility specialist. And then I ended up after my miscarriage switching to a different GP, which was a female. And at, when I saw her because she was not just like your streamlined GP, she had all of she had extra, extra qualifications in other areas as well. So she actually had told me and I remember her telling me if I had a seen her before trying to fall pregnant, she said I would have advised you against it.
So, yeah, so there was because she's like, there's a, there was a lot of things that I needed to fix first in my body that that helps with a healthy pregnancy in a sense like it's not like it was going to cause the miscarriage. There are definitely your body can actually, you know, fall pregnant with what I had. But she's like I just would have advised you to not try at that point. She goes, I would have wanted to get all of these things up to scratch and then you try.
Jenn Junod
Yeah.
Sharna Southan
So it was kind of like, you know, I did it backwards, you know, I really just wanted to shortcut the process at the beginning. I really just wanted to fall pregnant and have a baby because that was my dream.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. It when you after you got out of the hospital and I, I am, I can only imagine that this is different for all women. How long did it take your body to recover from the miscarriage? But just not your body but like your mind and your relationship and then deciding to try again.
Sharna Southan
Yeah. So I I knew that I had to grieve. I knew what I was going through. I was, I was grieving. I, what I didn't expect was my body to respond, you know, how it would respond when you're pregnant, but when you don't actually have anything to, to prove that you were pregnant. I really struggled with. I guess I got the baby blues as well. Like I and I physically couldn't move for, for a good period of time.
I think, you know, all up. It was a good couple of weeks before I could actually physically do anything for myself. My, I also had to get my iron sorted out as well because of a lot of the blood loss that I had experienced. So there was a lot of things that I had to fix kind of in my body first. Once that's once I was able to start to feel my body recovering my mind, I was able to focus then on my mental health.
because at the beginning, it was just like I was just numb, I was in shock. I couldn't, I just literally couldn't process anything. So then focusing on my mental health and really trying to not go down the road of depression. I was multiple times, you know, heading that way and my husband could recognize it for me and he was trying in his way to actually bring me out of it.
So he was, he was an amazing support. Although what I, what I experienced was, you know, my grief was so different to his grief and there was a lot of fighting towards the end because we were like, you know, I'm still falling apart. Why are you? OK? And that was probably a couple of weeks, you know, after it had, had all happened and, you know, he was going back to work and I was still a mess and I'm like, I don't know how you look like you, you're not even grieving anymore.
But, you know, for me, it took about five weeks, I took about five weeks off work to be able to get to the point where I could actually physically see people again and wrap my head around going back to work because before that point, I was like, I cannot do this. Like I could not go back to work. I couldn't, wasn't in the position to be able to explain myself to anyone.
And that's another, another part as well, like being in the workplace and having to go back and explain to people, you know, why you've had so much time off work or why you might be breaking down or you know why you are reacting the way that you do. But yeah, it was definitely, it was, it took a toll on our relationship as well. but I think the, the, the, I guess the part that sort of kept us going was even though we were fighting, we were talking like we were getting, getting stuff out that
we wanted to say it wasn't, I guess healthy in the sense that it was fighting. But, you know, he was trying to control the situation in a time where you can't control anything. So he was really, we were fighting over the stupidest little things, but he, it's because he was trying to control those things and I was like, this is just meaningless stuff like why, why are we even fighting about it?
So and it wasn't until about, you know, halfway through my pregnancy with my, with my second baby that he opened up and actually told me how, how scared he was and how, how much the miscarriage had actually affected him and how much he was trying to hold it all together because I was falling apart and I was like, I needed to, I needed to know these things.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And that's, that's scary just for him to go through that. But also, I can only imagine because so many men don't open up ever that, to be able to open up to you about that during your second pregnancy. to, to go back a bit about work. Does Australia have anything for, like any leave for miscarriages?
Sharna Southan
They've only just introduced leave for miscarriage. I think, from memory it's only a couple of days or four days. but, you know, it's, it's a, it's a milestone in itself to be recognized, although it's just the thought of having to go back to work after four days or even, or two days. I was just like, there's no way that I would have been able to function and, you know, women, women do, they go back to work and it, it sort of forces them to suppress their emotions.
It forces them to start to ignore their grief because how can you grieve when you're at work? You like? And you know, I, the thought those thoughts crossed my mind too because I was like, I ended up taking unpaid leave and I was like, oh, I need to go back because I, we're not, I'm not getting paid. but then I was like, I can't, I physically cannot, my, my brain was just not working and I'm like, how, like I was a dental nurse. So I'm like, how am I gonna actually be of benefit to anyone if I'm,
if I can't even concentrate and I can't do my job properly. So, you know, it's the fact that it's recognized is huge. Although it's, it's still just, I don't, it's, it's hard to even comprehend having to go back after such a short period of time when, you know, when you have a baby, you get 18 weeks. So there's a huge, like, huge gap between, you know, when you have a healthy baby and when you're actually grieving you, the baby that you've lost.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. What, when you, are starting to coach these women and they, they find you, is it normally after a miscarriage or a loss or how do you also, do clients come to you when it's when they're looking to become pregnant?
Sharna Southan
I ha have had most women come to me sort of in the healing process. So it's been at some point after they've, they've had the pregnancy loss to, when they can start to recognize for themselves that they do need support. So, they've sort of come out of that thick of grief a little bit to say Well, you know what like I need, I need something. I just don't know how it's going.
I don't know what my next steps are so I can help them, you know, process their grief and process those emotions and really be able to reconnect with their, you know, their new identity now because it is different after loss. But also, you know, part of what I part of the awareness that I bring in my work is the trying to conceive process after pregnancy loss and it is falling pregnant after loss, or parenting after loss as well because it's not, it all stems back to the original the
original moment that experience of your miscarriage and if the emotions and the, the experience in your story isn't isn't processed and isn't embodied and embraced at that point trying to conceive and then pregnancy after loss is going to be that much harder and you're going to start to bring in potentially things that don't serve you or your child beliefs and fears that don't serve you in your parenting style as well after loss.
Jenn Junod
How, how long was it you mentioned earlier that when you were in the hospital, they, they said that it was one in four women lose their their pregnancy. What, how long after your pregnancy did you find out that you weren't alone or actually have that conversation with someone that went through something similar?
Sharna Southan
Yeah, so Yeah, so it's one in four pregnancies. And when I was told that by the guy at the hospital and I was like, this is just not, this is not on and it wasn't until I'd say like, when II I had to obviously process my grief first. After maybe about two or three weeks, I started to open up on social media about my story and what I was kind of experiencing and it ended up having, three of my close friends reach out to me and tell me that they had experienced it as well.
And I was like, are you kidding me? Like I just, I was honestly so surprised that these women who I had been friends with for so long, hadn't, hadn't actually told me, well, I mean, not that they're going to actually come out and tell you, but, hadn't actually mentioned anything before that, that they had gone through something like that. and that's what made it really clear to me that there needed to be more, more awareness that women can actually create a conversation about that.
And, you know, there are so many women that when you ask them, you know, how many Children do you have? They, they dismiss the ones that they've lost because they're like, well, I don't want to talk about it because it's not received well. And I was like, well, I'm open, you know, I tell people you know, my first pregnancy ended in loss and now we have our rainbow baby.
You know, it's, I really want women to feel like they can tell their story, they can honor their, their little loves that they haven't, that they don't have earthside and still be confident in their story and, you know, share, like say their babies' names. If they, if they were able to name their babies, I unfortunately didn't know what mine was. But, you know, they're always part of my story when people ask me, you know, even with her, you know, they ask me if I'm having any more kids,
like, will she have a sibling? And I'm like, well, you know, she kind of does. She's got one but it's just not here and I'm really quite content with just her right now. So, you know, really just owning your being able to own your story and have society start to really accept that too.
Jenn Junod
What when you mentioned, about sharing on social media and, and even earlier that people were dismissing the fact about the loss, how two parts, like how does someone start with that, of sharing and not feeling the shame of their loss? And then as someone that has been told of my friends going through that loss, I honestly don't think I've been through for them the best I could have. But I think a lot of it is that part of that education because I'm like, I don't know what to say other
than like, are you ok, physically because that I've, I've heard that it can be very, like a tremendous amount of pain and it can also become septic. where, that's where my head goes first, is their safety, their physical safety. And then I honestly don't think I followed up as much as I could have for, you know, the, their, their mental well being.
Sharna Southan
Yeah, it's, you know, I was fortunate enough to have support around me. when I started to open up on social media, I wasn't met with really many people that were dismissing, you know, what I was going through. So I, I consider myself quite lucky. But, you know, I do hear a lot of women saying, you know, within their experiences, family members, even their partners dismissing and, you know, saying that they shouldn't be, they shouldn't be grieving because it wasn't a baby and I'm
just like, well, I, I don't understand like where, you know, and I think a lot of it is like you said, the education because what people say in that, in that time, it's often to fill the space because they are awkward or it is that they are trying to fix, fix the woman or fix the situation where essentially that it's not a situation to be fixed either.
Jenn Junod
And I think that's always hard is because I've definitely walked into a situation wanting to be a fixer, because it's like I just want to make them feel better. So I, gone to, talk about myself to try to get them not so upset and that's definitely not a good way of handling it. But is it like, I guess some D OS and don't like, like I, I've talked to you.
...
Jenn Junod
That's cool. yeah, I like you know what? We're just, I can hear you now, you can hear me now. I'm just gonna switch mics. We're just gonna go back on regular audio because my, my audio doesn't always like to work. So I just, you know, un mic myself real quick and be back. but I was gonna say for what's the last part you've heard?
Jenn Junod, Sharna Southan
Let's go with that just the way you were asking about the D OS and don't Yeah.
Jenn Junod
because it's, it's when I spoke to a mother of a transgender son, she mentioned how so many parents as soon as they find out they're pregnant, they start envisioning a world and dreaming of this world and that it brought up that I would almost want to ask the mother what she was envisioning and more about what she is grieving only because I don't know when you're grieving. Is it a physical, like a physical sense or is it the sense of the future you thought you had.
Sharna Southan
Hm. I think there's, it's, it's, it's multifaceted like when you're really grieving, the loss of a baby because you're grieving your identity as well. You're grieving. Absolutely. The future that you had created because as soon as you see those, those lines, those positive lines or whatever, a smiley face or whatever odd is on that stick, you immediately start to change and shift and go.
Well, you know what I'm gonna be, we're gonna be parents like this is going to be, this is different, this is what our future's gonna be like. And it's almost instantly. and you're also grieving the, the physical being of your baby like you, even though I never got to meet my baby, I still knew that it was there. So I'm grieving the physical nature of my baby.
And then I was grieving the, the, the person that I was like, you know, you know, who, who I was before and then to who like who I, who am I now. And yeah, also the future that you, that you instantly create for yourself in that moment. So there's so many different things that the grief sort of encompasses like when you're going through it. And it's, and to be honest, like I think a lot of a lot of the time society doesn't want to talk about it because it is they think maybe if they bring up the
baby or whatever, it's going to stir the emotions and bring it all back up for the mom. But, you know, most women from what I've from who I've spoken to actually want you to mention their baby, actually want you to include their baby. You know, when I, when I lost my dad, he passed away when I was 19. We still include him in our conversations in our, in our memories.
And you know, that's what women want as well for their baby. They want that memory, they want that time remembered as well. And you know, like it's still something that initially it'll, it's hard to look back on that moment. It's hard. But and if you do bring it up with a woman, she probably might cry, she might get all emotional and go through some things.
But for the most part, it will be quite healing for her to be able to. And it also gives her the, the awareness that you actually want to know and you actually do want to be there for her as well. That you were acknowledging her, that you were acknowledging her story and that you were acknowledging her baby.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And thank you for, for that, I think it's, it's hard to imagine as society and even for myself when you haven't gone through that and how do we support those? And even to a mother that you, you, that you know, has recently gone through it. How do they allow themselves to grieve? Because with society saying that you have to get over it so quickly, how do they, they say? Ok, I will grieve.
Sharna Southan
I think it's, it's, it's about them taking responsibility for themselves and them taking responsibility for their, their, their o like overall health, their mental and physical health because, grief is a natural, it's a natural thing for our bodies to go through, especially because grief is love. If you, if you never love anything, you will never grieve anything.
So, but I'm like, what is the life without love? But unfortunately, what comes with love is grief. And so really, it's the woman just taking responsibility for herself and saying, you know what? No, like I need to do this for me. I need to grieve and I need to process this because every single emotion that is coming to you, to the, to the woman is, it's it's coming to be expressed and released.
It's not coming to you to be ignored and it's not coming to be suppressed. So everything that you're feeling allow that to all come out in the moment and really acknowledging where you are, where the w like where the woman is in the grieving process. So, you know, the grieving process is not going to be cut and dry, it's not going to be, there's like five stages, it's not going to go along that line, it's going to be all over the place and it's going to one day, you'll be fine the next day
you'll have, you'll be a complete mess and that's fine. That's your grieving process and your process is going to be different to the next woman that's going to be going through it. So, really just when you get met with those comments and those, you know, opinions about from other people to say, oh, you can't grieve or you should be over it by now.
If my, it was five years ago, it was 10 years ago, like you shouldn't still be grieving, just ignore those comments because this is your, this is you, this is your process and you have to do it for you. No one else.
Jenn Junod
And you know what, when, when you're coaching mothers, like when do you say is a the good time or to start planning about trying again? Like I feel like that would be, as you spoke about earlier, it would be tremendously difficult to allow space when you lost your previous child.
Is there an average timeline at that last or like, you know, I would imagine it would be different for every woman. But is there like a standardized time or I guess like a mile marker they can go to, to be like, cool, I can go now.
Sharna Southan
So what I would, you know, sort of how I would recommend where I would recommend women start trying is where when they can start to acknowledge their emotions, when they can start to know themselves. And why say, for example, why they were triggered that day and be able to cope with that or why they are having that meltdown for absolutely no reason.
And really just being able to understand that because if you're, if you take those unhealed emotions into a following pregnancy, that's when they're going to be heightened and they're just going to keep coming back until you, until you process them, until you acknowledge them. And at that point, you're already sort of you might already be pregnant and the, the stre the the stresses that your body goes through it ends up releasing hormones that aren't going to be necessarily
beneficial to you or to the baby. So really, there's no real time frame in, in the, in a sense. Although if just say, for example, we were moving through one of my programs, we would spend a good month, really being able to acknowledge the pro acknowledge the emotions and really start to process them and know that you're confident in not having those emotions, really overwhelming you and you know, taking over your body.
So yeah, it's no, there's no real time frame and you could like I could say to a, a customer, a sorry client that, you know, for a month, she's be like she'll be ok and then, ok, we'll, we'll move on to the next, the next lot and then in that second month she might, you know, revert back, which is fine. So it's just a matter of, but it's a matter of them acknowledging that and bringing awareness to that for themselves that, you know, they really do have the ability to cope with those
emotions, those intense emotions when they come and that it doesn't knock them off their feet. That would be a really good place to start. And one question that I asked myself when I was trying to conceive again was, you know, I asked myself if I, if I was to go through a miscarriage again, how would I cope? And as hard as that question was, if I said that I, I would be a complete mess, I wouldn't be able to cope like I couldn't do it again, then it's not a good place you're not in, you're
still not in a really good place. But if you could say, you know what, which is when I like when I got to the point where I could say it would be, it would, it would be shit. My heart would be broken again, but I would be ok. Then that's, that's when you know that you're in a really good mental place to be able to cope if shit was gonna hit the fan again. You know, and, but you just hope that it doesn't like you just, and that's the thing, you, you cannot control going into a following pregnancy
how it's going to turn out. So, really just being able to surrender that as well and know that you've done everything in your ability, mentally and physically to get to the point where you are, ok, you might still be hurting, that's fine. You might still be grieving, that's fine. Just that you know that within you, you would be able to cope.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And can you tell us a bit more about your program and like what those steps look like?
Sharna Southan
Yeah. So I've recently just real I I will be releasing AAA 30 day program, which will be sort of an easier access point potentially for women that want to maybe just try it out in a way. Essentially the three month program is my, the one where you're going to get like the results, the transformation. And we start, we start with the woman, like we start with the experience, we start with their story and their emotions and really how, how they have been able to process those emotions for
themselves because a lot of the time what happens is they might have been able to process it to some degree. But our, our body reveals to us like onion layers, the next level, the next layer that needs to be healed and needs to be processed. So, even though they might think, ok. Yep. Cool. Done. You know, tick, I've, I've acknowledged my emotions.
There's more layers to it. So it's really just being able to go back to the start and know that they can really own their story and take responsibility for their story and have the tools to cope with those emotions when they do come up and those triggers and they do come up. But then what I do is move them to once we, once we can get a, a good understanding of their emotions, really bringing their attention to, you know, how their belief patterns have been formed around their experience
as well. So they'll have potentially beliefs of being unworthy, of being a failure and it might not, they might think again. Oh, yeah. Cool. Done. You know, I've, it's been, you know, maybe a year or two years since my loss and that hasn't bothered me, but there might be something in their workplace where this belief is showing up. There might be something in their relationships that this belief is showing up and it will prevent them from living their fullest expression of
themselves. It will prevent them from, you know, really being truly authentic to them. So really being able to, and within my program, I have like the structure of structure of experience. So it really goes through how we can start to change the meaning of our, of the things that aren't serving us. So whether that is an emotion, whether that is a thought pattern or a belief, it's really changing what that meaning means.
We can't change the, the story, but we can change the meaning. And then really like the last month is them reconnecting to who they are. Now, what their core values are, how they can find their inner peace and their inner joy and how they can live that and how, what that looks like for them now, whether that is falling pregnant again or whether it is that they have chosen that they don't want to have kids and they don't wanna try again.
So it's really then going down those paths and, and having them connect to that new future. So, you know, it's not like I'm not going to just be helping them through their experience. I'm actually helping them connect to themselves and to a future that they are so entitled to, to be living. But their, their loss has kind of taken that away from them.
So it's really a holistic approach to the healing process and it starts with the emotions because that can present in so many different ways, even suppressed emotions can present physically. So it's really understanding, you might, like I said before, you might think that those emotions are, you know, a a are dealt with, but you might have a physical, you know, muscle pain or like discomfort, that's somewhere in your body that kind of just keeps
coming back. That doesn't go away. It's really exploring that too because that can potentially be a place where emotions, reside, the energy of the emotions reside. Yeah.
Jenn Junod
And that's something that you mentioned, specifically about relationships and, before we start to wrap up, that is something that I wanna touch base on is if, would there have been something that your husband or your loved ones could have done to that you feel like you, they could have supported you more with or something that you would suggest for other significant others supporting their, the women that have lost more.
Sharna Southan
Hm. I think, I'm doing a lot of work around this, at the moment and it is about men and men in men in grief, and keeping the communication open between the partners because it, you're in this together. like I said before, you've chosen each other for a reason. Usually it's because you love them and there is that spark there and you trust them and you know, whatever happens, you know that they're gonna be there for you.
So, but when something like pregnancy loss happens, we shut down. We, we, we, we both of us like you, we both stopped talking and you feel like there's gonna be judgment and you feel like, you know, we as well, you're assuming there's going to be all of this stuff that's going to probably play out between the couple. but what, what I really recommend is, and what I, like I said, what I've been working on is, really having an open communication, finding the ways that work for men to, to
open up and what men's grief looks like is going to be completely different to what a woman's grief looks like. What my husband when he was going back to work, that was him keeping busy. So he could process. And a lot of the time men will keep busy and do something, they'll physically do something, they'll do a project and, you know, one way to actually maybe open up, have them open up verbally is to maybe go for a walk, get them in motion so that you can, you can start to have them talk, but
they're not gonna be the ones that are gonna be sitting down with you on a couch and having like ad and m like, they're not, men really aren't designed that way and all brought up that way because society puts this, sort of, you know, vision on men that they've got to be the pillar of strength that they can't be the ones that are falling apart, right?
But allowing them to be that letting, just opening that communication and knowing, letting them know that there is no judgment like whatever happens that you are both there for each other. the woman might be the one that wants to talk it out. but finding a way that maybe the man can express his, his emotions or what he's feeling verbally as well.
But also knowing that what he's doing isn't that he's not grieving. Yeah. you know, a lot of relationships have broken down because of that because we assume that the other person isn't doing it right. And, I've heard of so many relationships breaking down because of that. So if we're open and honest with each other, it really can't, it can't go wrong, you might fight, you might cry, that one person might not say anything and that's fine. But I think our relationships can be, can be
sort of salvageable if, if, if you can keep the communication open. Our love and our relationship only got deeper after the, after our loss. But like I said, it, it took a while for him to actually open up and tell me what it was that he was truly feeling. So, you know, there really is, they do have that, that want and that need to be understood and not to be dismissed. But it might just take some time for them as well to actually feel like they're OK and they're safe in expressing it. Yeah.
Jenn Junod
And thank you, Shana and for going into that a bit more. And we've covered a lot of the processes through this and, and each of the steps, Is there anything that you wanted to cover today that we didn't yet?
Sharna Southan
Not necessarily, I think we have touched on a lot of things. I think the one thing I wanted maybe just mention before we leave is just to, for the women to, to express their emotions because when you don't, when you ignore them, they do, their emotions are energy and they then become internalized and that emotion, that energy becomes stuck. So really, it's in their best interest, like to take that responsibility for themselves, to process the grief, to feel the emotions as
uncomfortable and as painful as what they are. that is going to be the, the first place for them to start in their healing journey. And then when you get to that point where you're like, OK, now, I don't know what to do. That's when you then can look outside of yourself for that support, to help you with those next steps.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. And I, I feel like that, that was a bit of words of encouragement, but any words of encouragement for our audience beyond that,
Sharna Southan
Listen to yourself, don't, don't take, don't take the opinions of others upon yourself because a as hard as what it is when you're feeling emotional and vulnerable, they feel you feel like what people are doing or saying is a direct direct thing to you it's like you take it on personally. but it's not necessarily the case really just understand what it is that you need.
take the opinions that might, resonate with you and leave the ones that don't, pe you can't, unfortunately can't control what people are going to say, but you can control the way that you respond and the way that you receive it. So, just knowing what you need and taking what you need from people and leaving, what doesn't serve you.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. And last, but not least what is something that you're grateful for?
Sharna Southan
You know, to be honest, it's actually going to sound weird, but I am actually grateful for all of the pain that I've experienced in my life because it has allowed me to see that intense beauty that I am cap that my life is capable of. So I have learnt and grown so much through all of my pain and challenges. So I am grateful for them because it's given me the opportunity to live the life that I am living today and that's beautiful.
Jenn Junod
And my, my gratitude thing is definitely not as deep as that. I was gonna say, I'm grateful that you told me what your fish are. So the green one is a dolphin fish. Yes. And the brown one is a flathead, flathead. Yeah, I remembered if I ever make it to Australia, I, I need to go see them in person.
Sharna Southan
Yes, absolutely. And he's getting, he's getting an even bigger fish molded so he can you, you'll have another one to look at when you're here.
Jenn Junod
Awesome. Well, thank you so much Shaina for joining the podcast today and talk soon. Thank you.
We appreciate you listening to the episode. Please like follow and share on our social media at shit to talk about. That is shit. The number two talk about stay tuned on Wednesdays and Fridays for new episodes. This episode was made possible by production manager Tron Nan, business manager, Bill Powell and your host, Jen.
