S2 E3 Shit2TalkAbout Nobody has ever done anything bad on beer... wait what? with Matt Gardiner
Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! Jenn Junod
Hello. Hello, beautiful human. Welcome to shit. You don't want to talk about. This is a podcast where we turn shit. You don't want to talk about into shit to talk about. As a reminder, all of the views of our guests are their own. They do not necessarily represent those of the host, Jen Janna or of the podcast shit you do not want to talk about. Please support us on Patreon or paypal.
Help share the show and if not, you know, keep showing up loving us. It is all up to you. Stay tuned for a dope episode of expanding your mind yet always make sure that you keep track of what you need and if anything is triggering, take a step back, skip this episode. If you're curious if this is going to be triggering or not, feel free to check the episode description. Much love. Hello. Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome back to another episode of Teach Gen Tech, teach Gen Tech y'all.
That's my other show. It happens. It is like literally the first time I was doing that show I couldn't even handle because I kept saying welcome to shit. You don't want to talk about now. I'm doing the opposite. This is great. Well, you're in the right place. Welcome to shit you don't want to talk about. And today we have Matt here on the show and Matt, please introduce yourself and the shit you want to talk about today.
Matt Gardiner
Hey Jan. Yeah. As you said, my name is Matt. I'm definitely glad we're not talking tech because that is not my strong suit. However, I am here to talk about my journey to a healthy, vibrant alcohol, free life.
Jenn Junod
I like how you say vibrant I, and I really appreciated our intro call. I don't even know when we did it a while ago because we talked about like still even being able to be around people that drink and like being able to have that balance. I, I would say like as a like, it's of course not the end point whenever we're talking about like where you're at now because, you know, tomorrow everything could
change to something else that you're interested. You know, that's how humans evolve yet. How did you get on like, why did you decide or discover to go to an alcohol free life?
Matt Gardiner
Yeah. You know. Yeah, great opening question. You know, a lot of different reasons, you know, so I'll look at it in different phases. So I, you know, dating back to when the, the reason I used it in the first place, you know, I was very shy kid. Growing up and in my teenage years, very shy around girls, even in groups of people, I never felt like I quite fit in to a mold.
So I was, I would use like a people pleasing type, you know, type thing like a chameleon essentially, right? So I could kind of fit with the group and I never quite felt like I fit in. So I'd be, you know, friends with all the, you know, the, the archetypes of high school, the nerds, the band people, the, you know, the, the, the jocks, the, the rebels and all that.
I'd be kind of on the outskirts of every group, but I truly didn't feel like I fit in. And the reason that I would do that was to just kind of keep myself off the radar. I had been exposed to some bullying when I was in grade eight. I was just a really short small kid. I didn't hit a growth spurt till about grade nine. So I was just this really small kid and, and shy as I mentioned and my parents had gone through a divorce, right, as I started grade eight.
So I had a bit of a tumultuous ho ho like home life that I wasn't used to because I'd had sort of a pretty sheltered upbringing up to that point and then it was just like my world blew up. So usually where I could go home and just feel like myself home was very, very different. So I didn't have this feeling of safety that I, I did before and I was just very stunned and confused.
So, you know, that led me to, initially I was doing sports as like an outlet and to help me, you know, kind of work through some of this, this energetic stuff that I was going through. But I found I was way too emotional for sports. I was super competitive with myself. Still am. And I would just, if things didn't go my way, I get just bat shit crazy.
Basically, I'd like almost tear off. Right. And it's like, I'd be good in practice. But as soon as there was the added pressure of the game, I would get very worked up. So I pivoted into music. So with music came, you know, the glorification of like, you know, weed, smoking and drinking, you know, I started reading, biographies on, you know, Led Zeppelin and all these bands like this.
That it is just, it's all about this chaos and copious amounts of drugs, alcohol and everything. So, of course, I was like, I modeled that behavior as best I could. So that's what I got into it. And I found the alcohol really allowed me or I perceived it allowed me to come out of my shell. I could talk to people at parties. And, so that's what I used it for was, I, I felt that I tapped into like the real me, that was my perception of it at the time, you know, and as I went through my twenties, the
usage increased to a point. I was a daily drinker and there was definitely a point I wanna say around 27 I put myself in the hospital for acute pancreatitis, incredibly painful. And it was off of a, a really rough weekend of, of binge drinking and I was in the hospital for three days. And I remember that was the first time I really had this voice in my head going, OK, like party's over, you're done.
Like, and I was even, you know, looking up at the looking up at the lights in, in the hospital going OK, like if I get out of here, like praying to whatever God or universe, you know, I believed in at that time, you know, I've always been fairly spiritual, but at that time, I was a little bit, you know, angry 27 year old, right? So a little bit you know, n not so much into like religion, organized religion and such either way I just remember like, just doing the, like, if I get out of here,
I've, I've learned my lesson like, just like, please, I, I've and then, you know, long story short at 24 hours after getting out of there, my addict rain started negotiating with me going, you know, that was like hard alcohol that did that to you just cut out the hard alcohol. You've never been a beer drinker. Beer will never put you back in the hospital.
You're a beer drinker now. So, within 24 hours of getting out the hospital, I completely broke my, you know, my pact with myself in the universe. I had a beer in my hand. I like, this will be fine. Beer is harmless. Nobody's ever done anything bad on beer. And, you know, I continue that pattern for a while. but that was a turning point for me as you can imagine being in the hospital and, and just realizing that there is some pretty serious circumstances that I could be just waiting
around the corner for me. You know, I always liken it to, you know, the universe gives people taps. I was getting a lot of taps on the shoulder and then that one was like a big smack in the back of the head. And I was kind of like, hm, and I still didn't listen. Right. Or I partially partially listened. So by the time I was 30 I had my first three year alcohol free stint.
I had a, just a very distinct rock bottom moment and we can get into that later if, if, if it comes up. And, and that was my first stage where I was like, ok, I do have to change here. There's like, the party is over, you know, and that's three years after the the hospital visit. And that was great. That was the first time I really got into the idea of like self development and self growth.
Like, obviously I was naturally, you know, leveling up at different aspects of my life up to that point. But that was the first time I was like, actively pursuing it in books, like getting into Wayne Dyer and, you know, audio books and like learning about like, you know, changing your mindset and such. So that was a great, wonderful experience.
I'd gotten into like a a at that time and, and just realizing the power of like connection in community and not feeling so by myself and actually feeling like I'm starting to belong in things, right? So that was the first taste of, ok, there is life outside of using this, you know, substance as a coping mechanism. So that's leading to the answer to the question I, that was the first taste enough that that first three years sober, alcohol free that I had that, you know, everything was
going great. And at that stage, you know, I was, I was leveling up, I was getting promoted at work. you know, I got my band, got a $10,000 grant to record a professional album. So all these things were happening to me. There were signals like, ah, yes, you've cleaned up your act and now you're going to be getting, you know, the, these things as, as a result.
And then, you know, my ego kind of like overtook this new spiritual side that I discovered about myself. And my ego stepped in. And that was like the, you know, when it cut the, the attic brain piped up, which had been dormant for three years at that point and said, you know what I think you're cured. You got this, you can go back out and you can, you can try drinking like a normal person again.
And then that was my next three plus years trying literally any type of moderation attempt or like, you know, deal with myself and just breaking them all within 24 hours usually. And, you know, just getting so incredibly fed up with that, you know, towards the end. And then, so that was, that was really what did it for me was, you know, by that time it was like 37 by the time I, I decided, ok, enough is enough for, for good.
And that's what the current sobriety stint that I'm on right now, you know, and that was based on we again, we can get, get into the story if if it comes up as to why it was like my dad passed away couple of days before Christmas 2018 and he was a, a big drinker his entire life, you know, at age 66 to, to die at age 66 nowadays, you know, that's a pretty young age, in, in my opinion, for nowadays.
So that's, that really had a big effect on me and that is, you know, sort of the reason outside of myself to continue on with the, the living, the alcohol free life. And, yeah, so that was, that's kind of the back story as to like the why behind it and just all the like the warning signs and chances I had to change and you know, and how I attempted to change and then finally committed to it.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for that explanation. A, a few things that come to mind for me is I've heard of a lot of people can have the mindset of competing with their trauma. Like your trauma is worse than mine. My trauma is worse than yours or downplaying what they were going through like, oh, well, it's not that bad. So I don't need therapy or anything like that.
And I appreciate the way you started the telling us about your past because having a just trying to fit in anywhere can be very, very difficult, be like having it where I felt very similar in school. Like I there is a terminology for it called under the social, social capital theory and there's social bridges and bridgers are normally the people that go between different crowds and connect people in those crowds.
So they're always on the edge of everybody's space instead of like in one space. And I was just like, that's a thing that's me. because it also makes it, if you're going through all of these spaces, nobody's missing you if you're gone because they think that you're just often one of your other spaces. So I definitely can relate to that feeling of just feeling so alone because I've, I always thought people wouldn't notice me if I did go anywhere and how you talk about that your parents
go through a divorce and like home is no longer your safety. It's something that I don't know if a lot of people really think about it, especially if they're like in a, a stable home right now is if we do not have our bare necessities met. So I'm talking food, water, clothing utilities, you know, like shower toilet, you know, like just a safe home.
It not just pretty but like a safe home where people are getting along. Things like that. It can cause a lot of like turmoil without it fully being registered. So it can cause more trauma. Even though it's not necessarily a big one time trauma type thing. It's something that will build up that is underlying that we don't always realize and it, it is so relatable when you talk about that going into music that you started drinking a ton too.
I know for myself when I was in my late teens, I was drinking a shit ton. Like, and I did really stupid stuff because I felt like I would never be loved those type of things. Like I drank to try to fit in to be who they wanted me to be. And the guy that I dated, he was like the how do you say it? Like the person everybody wanted to talk to and go to like he was the popular guy and which was really cool, but everyone else wanted his attention.
So I felt like I didn't get enough attention and that I wasn't worthy for it. So I would do, I don't even want to name what I drank and did, but I would end up making out with someone or doing something that I honestly to this day don't remember. And I really wanna mention these because there are underlying issues that if we don't address them, we don't realize them, they can cause the addictions that we want to use to cover them up.
And you, you talk about that you when you were 27 you hit, hit your first stint of not drinking and for clarification y'all, I do still drink. It's only been in the last couple of years that I have found my moderation and found how to, I guess you could say properly drink. I say it like that because I was always someone that would drink a shit ton very, very quickly and to try to catch up to try to keep up with being the party, you know, the life of the party.
And then I would be shit faced crying in the corner about something. I was always the crier. It was never like I was a fun drunk. I was the crier and I mentioned this because I have myself have debated going completely off of alcohol. I have had friends that have done it too and it is such a personal choice and journey yet for many people, I've seen that it's so hard to do it by themselves, especially if their friends are out partying and stuff or even going to dinner.
You know, if you, if your friends aren't in the party realm anymore yet when you said when you were 27 that you went to the hospital and you were, you know, you could say sober for three days and then went back to beer drinking. How like what were was everyone else around you doing?
Because for myself, I think I made it worse for myself because no one else was drinking like doing shots and I would do shots when they're drinking beer. You know, for example, like, so I was causing it to be harder on myself than let's say peer pressure was doing.
Matt Gardiner
Yeah. Interesting. Thank you for for sharing your like drinking experience too because you know, it's great to get like this that you know, that reflection back and having your, you reflect on your, you know, drinking experience as well. So thanks for sharing. Yeah, for me. you know, yeah, context is everything, environment is everything.
So I went back to, you know, my girlfriend at the time who was actually my current fiance now. We did have a two year gap where we where we weren't together. But we were, we were like the party couple, right? That's, that's what brought us together. That was, again, that was how I was able to have the courage, quote unquote to talk to, to the opposite sex was, was having some drinks because otherwise, even into my adulthood, I was still painfully shy.
And, yeah, so that was about, we were about, so if I was 27 probably been about three years into our relationship, we'd lived together the whole time. It was a party house, right? It was like my band lived in, in the basement like the, the drummer did anyways. And another one of my best friends lived downstairs. So I was partying literally every day.
So when I came home, there was a concern and there was a OK, we'll do whatever we need to do to support Matt. But then as soon as I had the beer in my hand you know, the initial, it's like shock and there's like a pause and then when I say, hey, it's all good and then explain basically what, how my head explained it to me. Everybody's like, oh wicked Matt's back.
Right. So there was a concern, I'm not gonna say that they, they were like sad that the, the drinking Matt was potentially gone and they'd have to clean up or it would reflect back on them or however it would end up. it never got to that stage and then there was a pause, a kind of, are you sure? And I said, yeah, and they're like per but, you know, back to party time, right?
So that's kind of where it was. And, you know, I, I just straight up lied to my family like they knew I went to the hospital but I had some bullshit excuse about like, I was, you know, mixed, I had some like, was it different vitamins or I said, like I had these supplements I have, I, I'm not used to taking and I think I had an energy drink, you know, some BS, right?
All they had to do is Google it and, and realize like acute pancreatitis is from drinking alcohol, right? So, but nobody called, nobody called me out on my, my BS and, I just, I thought it was like, I dodged the bullets. I told everybody I was in the hospital. I did I was not forthcoming as to why, I'm not fully forthcoming. And, yeah, and then it was back to, to Party Party Central.
Right. And, and, you know, I, I learned how to navigate like, you know, that swelling, that kind of pulsation that would happen to my body when I got too close and I would just stop drinking for the night. You know, I go lay down in bed and then just hope that, you know, that pain that was kind of creeping up to like a two or three wouldn't all of a sudden decide to go full bore and go back up to the eight or 10.
And then I have to go back to the hospital. So I was, I had numerous nights where I would just like, drink right to my threshold, kind of start feeling it in my body that ok, it is time to, I gotta, I gotta wind things down and, you know, that's how I continued on for, you know, years after that.
Jenn Junod
I, when you're explaining, like when you came home from the hospital, it almost makes me think of how society has made partying, especially when you think about like high school or college shows like American pie, all of those that it's like you, somebody falls and then they get back up and go, I'm ok. I'm ok and everybody cheers because they're like, oh, they're fine.
You know, we can still party like nothing bad happened. And there's like this huge misconception that nothing bad can happen. But I truly truly can, like, especially if we don't know our limits, if we you know, because we're so impaired that we may go with people that are not safe, that are like, there's, there's a lot of dangers out there other than, you know, the win of feeling good, which is just like, so interesting to think about that in an abstract instead of like when I go have
my glass of wine, you know, like it's like this very different mentality. Now, do you think that it was partially getting older in age that made you want to at 27 or was it like, you know, I got sick, I went back to beer and then when your father died, that was like what you were like, oh shit. Like this isn't the life for me? Like, what do you have an idea or was it like a build up?
Matt Gardiner
It was, yeah. So it was a build up. I had an idea though. Like I mentioned there was, there was definitely some there was a, a voice of reason in my head that you know, it was kind of whispering to me before that whole thing when I put myself in the hospital and then it became a very prominent voice, right? I guess there's like the devil and the angel on your shoulder type thing.
There's the devil of course, being the the attic brain and then the angel was starting to very strongly advocate for me pulling the plug on the whole drinking thing. Right. So that voice very much got turned up as well. So then it's kind of this conflicting. I was definitely at an inner war with myself, when I wasn't drinking and of course, as soon as I am drinking, it's, it, you know, both those voices kind of just fade away, right?
Which is the idea of, of why I was drinking in the first place. So, yeah. All, all two parted. So like the first one that first sober alcohol free stint between 3033. Yeah, definitely. You know, I didn't think of it. I felt terrified by or like overwhelmed or like it was very contracting to feel like, you know, I could never drink again, right?
So I knew I couldn't drink for a while and I was doing the whole a, a one day at a time thing. So that's what I was doing initially and just everything else in my life was really coming, just coming for me. Like every the universe was co collaborate, like collaborating with me, co creating with me and it was amazing feeling. So I just kept going with that, you know, and at this sta at that stage, I still had a lot to learn though, you know, it's, it's important.
distinction to make at that time. What I did is I just started going to the gym every day. So I did the replacing one addiction with another and not getting into and you touched on it earlier. It's like not getting into the why, like why was there this addiction in the first place? So, you know, there is in, in certain you know, recovery modalities that they say like, you know, don't replace an addiction with another.
And I say if it's a healthier addiction and it gets you from stopping drinking, which it did for me, I that was the best thing I could have done at that time. That's not to say that you, you don't have to then do the inner work after that. But initially, if you can stop, if you can switch one addiction, that's a negative for your health and everything else and switch it into something positive.
I think there's there is definitely some room for that. So that's what I did initially. And you know, it was like, well how to verbalize it. It's like more of the yang energy. It's like getting out there doing more, getting more motivated, like achieving more, right? And that was big for me in the third, in my early thirties. And that worked and then fast forward to the part two after I tried all this moderation went back in, tried these different moderation techniques realizing
that like nothing I can do is gonna work. I just, I, I'm not a normal drinker and that's fine. Well, it's fine now, definitely wasn't fine at the time. You know, so, and then the whole thing with my dad that was, and, you know, coupling with like to your, to your point the age by the time I'm 37 I'm like, OK. All right. I'm not when I was 30 there was still like that 2% of me that I, like, I left the door open just a crack and I knew at some point I was gonna go, I needed to peek in there and I did.
Right. So then as a result, I was being very secretive about my, my sobriety. I would always just have some like bogus excuse. Like when I went to play, you know, a show, people would be giving me a beer and I'd just be like, no, you know, after the show, like it, it, it hurts my vocal chords or just some BS, right? And then by the time I was finished the set, I knew that everybody was gonna be nice and nice and loaded and then forget that I wasn't drinking or I'd be like, oh, you know, I do the
whole like I just, I'm not feeling well like I'm on antibiotics or something like that. Right? So I never was straight up just said, hey, I'm not a drinker anymore, right? Because I didn't wanna, yeah. Again, like the people pleasing thing, I didn't want to disappoint, quote, unquote anybody. Right. Or make them feel bad about themselves because they, they're seeing me and then they internalize it, you know what I mean?
So, I was doing all that kind of stuff. That was part one. And then so by the second time, you know. Yeah. Older, the whole thing with my dad definitely rattled me knowing that I was on the same path as him. I had an Uncle Paul who was on my mom's side that died at like 56 from complications of drinking heavy drinkers. Well, on both sides of my family and I'm on the same, you know, that same road and I'm just like, no, I can't do this anymore.
Right. And so that's what it was. The dad, the dad thing was a wake up call. He passed away right before Christmas. His celebration of life was in April. April 2019. And I had my, just again, one of these things that is just, is perfect how it worked out. I had this, like, really sloppy party weekend that all the greatest hits cocaine, you know, beer, hard liquor, cigarettes for some reason, even though I hadn't smoked in like, seven years, all that garbage.
Right. And, you know, I stayed up till like, four or five in the morning, the day before I had to drive eight hours to go to a celebration of life and it was just like I woke up and, and I always leave like the hair of the dog. Right. The, the one beer that I can have the next day to, to, like, you know, make myself feel somewhat normal, I guess. I don't know, I don't know what I was going for there and I got about halfway through and I was just like, what the hell am I doing?
I just dumped it and threw the garbage, hopped in the car and halfway between my hometown, which is Prince George British Columbia and Edmonton, where I currently live is a rocky mountain town called Jasper. And it's like one of the most beautiful quaint little mountain towns. I just love it. I, I, I've been there since I was a young, young boy.
So driving through there is always a thrill for me and I just felt empty and it was a bright sunny day and I'm just like, what is going on here? Like this is, yeah, just surreal at this point. And so I, I just grab my cell phone and just, I needed to get that energy moving because it was getting really dark. And, you know, I just, I had some suicidal ideation and I was just letting it come and I just realized as I was saying, and like, man, this is not, not where I wanna be and that's where I just
had, I just had this massive shift and I, I realized, you know, I'm going to do this as a, like a living tribute to my dad. That's where I'm headed right now. So I'm go, I just did a complete 180 I, I shouldn't say I, I felt like I was very much guided and there was something that, that touched me that day and at that time and just, give me a, give me a help because I was definitely at, at a rock bottom.
And, yeah, and that's, that's how it was. So the rest of the drive I was focused more on the solution. Ok. What am I gonna do? I've been here before I can do this again. Right. Having like a lot more positive self talk switching, getting like that energy back instead of this dark, dense, like stagnant, stuck energy. It just completely transformed.
And, yeah, I remember I picked up my brother at the airport and we hadn't been home together in like 20 years at that point. My dad and my, my older brother had had a bit of a falling out. So they hadn't talked in about 11 years and they never actually got the chance to resolve it before dad passed. So it was an emotional time for my brother as well.
And yeah, so we just went around like some of the old neighborhoods we hadn't been to and it was just this huge healing experience that we had and you know, the coupling of like, just being that's so disturbed and like the feeling of like a tribute to my dad. And you know, it's all the way down his lineage, like his dad was a drinker, my grandpa, my great grandpa, all the way down as far as we know heavy drinkers.
So I just felt like it was like, OK, I have a chance to like, dissolve this like ancestral pattern of drinking that keeps getting passed down and they can stop with me. And that feel felt very empowering, you know, part of me is like, am I being like egotistical by doing this? And I was like, no, it's, it's like the opposite of that. So it's, it's, it's funny that's what my brain thought of though.
I'm like, well, who am I to do that? Right? But like then I was like, who, who's that? Whose voice is that saying that, you know, kind of one of those things? Yeah, that's where it was. So like just the, the disturbed with the reason to do it for my dad and then the beautiful experience that we had after that, I, I knew it was like, after that week, I felt like I had already been alcohol free for like months.
It was just again, we talk like I talked about earlier context, the context of that, you know, had I just tried to decide to do that. Like, and I was still at home. I don't think I would have taken. Right. And I needed to be all of those series of events that just kind of happened at the same time. And that just launched me forward into, you know what I'm doing today
Jenn Junod
and I appreciate you breaking that down a bit more, something that I've experienced in scene with those who have been addicts in my own life of and it can be like a couple together that is the party couple or their addicts together. They are can be very, very toxic to each other because they know how to get away with things or push each other's buttons. You know, there's, there's a lot to go into it and yet, you know, you hear these stories about how going apart both getting sober does
allow coming together. And I know that I'm just like naming off random things that are coming to my mind on this. I'm curious how this worked for you and your fiance since you said that you were together a bit before your first time getting sober.
Matt Gardiner
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to talk about this. Actually, it's not too often that I get to bring her up and our story. So that's fantastic. Thank you. Yeah. So Darcy and I, like I said, they're definitely the party couple for sure. That's what brought us together, you know, and, we ended up deciding because we got together so young and we basically, we're not forced, but it seemed like the best thing, the easiest thing to do is just move in together right away and, and I was fine
with that and she was fine with that. So it was great. But it really didn't give us a lot of time to, like, we never did the full, like, you know, there was no romanticism behind it. Like we didn't get to really date. Like we just kind of like slammed into our relationship and it was great because like we got along so well, but we missed that whole, you know, romantic side of it and that gets missed or did get missed for us with the just the substances.
It was all about partying. So it was like we weren't even concerned about that at the time, you know, hindsight, you look back, you're like, I kind of wish we did get to do that and we did. So I'll get to that. So that, that's how it all started. We decided, you know, yeah, a few things happened where we both it was apparent that we needed to see other people.
We'll, we'll put it that way. And so we did, we decided mutually that we were going to have some time apart so we could get these, this out of our system just because again, we get together. So early and under the guys that we were going to get back together and, you know, that's as you can imagine, throw some substances in there, that's a pretty challenging thing to try and navigate.
And it was, and that was where I, I tapped out and I was like, yeah, though, this is not going quite as I was hoping it was and my drinking was out of control and I really, really missed her and, and, and, yeah, that's when I sobered up the first time that, when I was 30 then independent of me, that's when we stopped talking all together. Like nothing, not an email, no, anything.
And curiously enough, she sobered up independent of me. So I was three years, sober, I would say probably about two years in, to the three year stint and then she was a year, full year into it. So something happened with her mom, was diagnosed with cancer. So, it was enough for her to go. Ok, I'm getting calls from mom and she needs me at different times and I'm not able to be there for her because I'm so fed up all the time.
So that was her like, ok, I gotta grow up a bit here and she did, right. So, and it was just amazing. So the million dollar question for us was like, are we gonna find each other like super boring because we never really, we basically never hung out together without being like buzzed or like on our way to being buzzed. Right. So, I was kind of like, hmm, interesting.
So we came back into each other's lives and as it turns out, it was like a much more healthy, beautiful thing. There's so much more nuance and depth and we didn't find each other boring, in fact, the opposite. And it was just like, we got along famously and it was such a rad experience, you know, to know that that that was waiting for us on the other side of this, like, you know, we were very codependent and you know, like the substances and such and to grow sort of apart and then grow into
these independent people and then come back on the other side, which is what we wanted to do in the first place, but just on a different timeline, right? The universe brought us back together and it was, yeah, beautiful. So then I started dating her. I started asking her out and, and yeah, I'm gonna get emotional. So, yeah, give me a second here.
Yeah. And then so, you know, and that's how it happened. So we got to do the whole dating process and it was kind of fun and cute and all that and, and yeah, you know, after a couple of years of that was, it was actually me being a knucklehead, decided like you know, everything's going great. She's getting promoted at work. I'm getting promoted.
We're about to move back in together. And I'm like, you know, what would really enhance this if we had a few drinks? So it was me and you know, I, I this is where when I was talking about the moderation, the attempts at moderation. this is where this comes in. It's an important thing to unpack. So give me a few minutes if you, if you will just for people that are listening.
So I started off with it by going OK, we never drank cider before. So if we do like cider, I kind of did the whole beer thing again with cider though, right? She's like, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, let's go do that then. So that was kind of my like negotiation of it because she was a little bit hesitant. So we went and did cider. That was just a one and done and we sat on it for a couple of weeks and then two weeks later, I was, we were kind of like, yeah, you know, we got some extra time tonight.
Let's let's go get some cider again and then before you know, it, it's like a weekly thing and then so we're starting to put parameters on it. So we go OK. Well, hm, this is getting weekly again. So let's just do it. So only on weekends. Ok. Fair enough. So as soon as we've allowed weekends, every weekend turns into like a four day weekend. Like, ok.
No, this isn't working. How about no drinks at home? We'll only go out to drink, then we start going out to drink out, like four or five times a week and we're spending money on food as well. Just ballooning out like bills and just wasting money and just getting, you know, less healthy and fat and everything right there. Like the beer, empty calories and the salty food of pubs.
And yeah, and then so we're like, ok, now this isn't working either. Ok. what else can we do? And, you know, I just kind of kept going down the, the line of these different negotiations and attempts at moderation, nothing worked. And I dare say that was probably worse that we did this because it was like the binge drinking. We go four or five days without it.
And then when we got to do it, it'd be like 12 or 14 or 15 each, right? And then waking up hungover and be like, oh, the only thing that's gonna solve this is more beer, right? And, oh, yeah, that was the other funny one. It's worth mentioning. I was like, you know what, like before I was drinking like the lucky lager, it's like the crappiest cheap beer, right?
And I was like, you know what I'm like, I'm gonna, everybody's talking about craft beer and there's like this local brewery. So I'm gonna be supporting local, right? These justifications, they've just become a little more I guess wise or in my opinion, refined or my opinion at the time, more refined, right? Like I'm supporting the local business, right?
Like these types of this is nonsense but like, you know, that was the 35 year old version of me and my justifications and how they like evolved, right? So it's worth mentioning to anybody that has like problems with addiction that that will happen as you get older as you get wiser. So will your justifications and your ability to, to negotiate with yourself or you know, with the, with the addict side of the brain?
So yeah, and then, you know, here we are we've sort, we, we and we acknowledge that we had that two year gap. But with the two years, if we just count that in there, if it's like the full body of us being together, it's 17 years. this month in September here actually. So, you know, 15 of 17 years is, is a pretty darn good run. And yeah, she same thing pretty much very parallel to the first time.
She was about a year behind me. sobering up, which was challenging, don't get me wrong, you know, this past time. So I'm a little bit over three years now and she's a little bit over two years. So, and yeah, things are amazing. I think the only thing that's ever really come in between us has been when there's drinking, especially if one of us is doing it and the other one isn't because then there's just, it really throws off the energy. So that, that first year that she, was having a hard
time saying goodbye to it and I was very firm about not doing it. There was definitely some some, some things to work out and work through. And now it's just, yeah, it's, it's an amazing thing and man, she's such a just a massive part of my life and it's great, you know, because like I said, there was, we were codependent before, but we're very much two independent people that choose to be together and that's like a huge difference as you can imagine.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, definitely. And I, I love how you mentioned that because it's like, how do you break that codependent cycle or that addiction cycle? And you know, also trust in yourself if you're getting away from people that are have addiction cycles near you.
I, I would say I, I know that we're going to like make sure that we covered everything here shortly, but something that's really sticking with me is do you have any suggestions on how to walk away from those that are bad influences on you?
Matt Gardiner
Yeah. Such an important question. Yeah, this is these are two things, two questions that often came up throughout my, you know, even mulling over becoming alcohol free and my my first stages of alcohol free. The the one being the the whole, oh I can never drink again the rest of my life like just backing it off from that finalized statement to go.
No, I will not drink today. Let's just break it down a little bit and then the second one being, do I have to change all my friends now? Like, do I have to? And you know, and that's, that, that can be frightening for, for a lot of people. And, and, and we had talked about how, like how many social situations and gatherings are either based around or have the enhancement of, of drinking.
And so, yeah, that's, you know, there's no easy answer. I can just say what I did and it's, there's still a lot of people that I have have love for and I just, I have slowly lessen the time I spend with them, you know, it's, and, and it's, it's about boundaries. Like for me, if I, there's a few people that like, I will engage in conversation with them, you know, the next day because I know the pattern if, if it's like 10 pm and there's two people I can think of right off the bat and I'm getting
text messages from them around that time on a Friday or Saturday. I have a safe bet. I'd say like 99.9% sure they're inebriated. So I will not engage in any kind of conversation with them at that stage. And that's my choice. and that's no dis to them or anything. It's my boundary. II, I, I'm not gonna cross that. Right. So, you know, and then I, if I feel like it, I'm going to do it on my terms the following day, you know.
Yeah, this whole thing is like it, it is, yeah, I understand why it's such a challenge. That's what I've been doing. I've, I've just been slowly removing myself from situations, that don't align with my values and with who I am. having said that, you know, I'm, I'm not going to, I don't, I choose not to, judge them, right? or, or explain to them like, I don't want to give the impression that I think I'm better than them or, or anything like that.
It, it has nothing to do with it, right. It is just simply a different, you know, lifestyle choice, right? And I still have nothing but love for these people. but yeah, and then it is challenging, I can understand where, where, where that is the case, but I think it's easier than, than what most people would think is, is what I want, I really want to get to is, is, you know, just realizing that if you come up with your boundaries and your reason and your why that you have this, lifestyle
change or this mindset change, you don't really need to justify it to anybody else if you feel that and that's the way that you're going to interact and you have those healthy boundaries and those values set up and as part of your system and you live through that lens, just naturally those people will, will tend to drift away and it doesn't have to be this dramatic, you know, confrontation where you're just like, you know, it doesn't it.
Yeah, I mean, that's my experience with it and, you know, you know, just being still being able to be there for it because like part of being unconditionally a friend with those people means I'm being unconditional with myself, which is something I've recently learned, right? It's been very challenging for me, Jen. It's been, you know, I, I learned from both my parents but specifically my dad like, like a conditional love, right?
It's you know, you have to meet these conditions for you to be sign for me to be significant or for, to me to feel properly loved. So a lot of my patterns over the my, from a child, it on to my adult life has been achieving because if I don't achieve something, I don't feel like I'm gonna be loved. If I don't feel like I'm loved, I'm gonna be rejected.
And that's like my core fear is like fear of rejection that and this is just something I've uncovered in the last like a year. Right. And here I am 40 years old. So, you know, Yeah, that's for the question, for sure. It's just, just, just realize it is challenging but stick close to your values, your boundaries know why you have them and live through that as your lens and the people that are, you know, meant to stay in your life that are curious, who knows?
That could be the flip side where you have. So I have had this where somebody's like, you know, tell me a little bit more about like this alcohol free life and then all of a sudden it's like boom, you've connected on such a deeper level. So there's a little bit of both in there too, right? So remember it's not always going to be people leaving your life, there's gonna be enhancements of existing relationships and people will surprise you as well.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for saying that it's definitely something that I think happens not only in wanting to break away from toxicity or addiction, it also happens when you have a mindset change that even if you have all the same people around you, that if they don't agree with the person that you're becoming so many of them will lash out and break up with you, even as friends, I feel like there's such a thing as a friend breakup and some of them will just stay stagnant.
You know, you just move on and some will change with you. You'll inspire them to change with you. And that can be in any like that's not a significant timeline. Like somebody that was angry with you two years ago could have changed with you from your influence and down the road, you reconnect and see that they're doing really good in their life.
It's such a difficult road, especially when it's your family, your significant other, your parents, your Children, this really does affect everyone around you and Matt. I know we're starting the wrap up. Is there anything that we didn't talk about today that you specifically wanted to touch on?
Matt Gardiner
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Jen. Yeah. One thing that comes to mind is, you know, we, we hinted at it throughout our conversation here is, is definitely that, you know, putting the focus on what you do want versus, you know, what you no longer get to do or have the fear of missing out, right? Which is that, you know, that is almost a for me it's like a, a reactionary thing is like, you know, and that's a lower vibrational thing for me, but it's just I, I think it might have something to do with like a
survival thing or it's based out of that core fear that I talked about fear of rejection is, oh, shoot. Like what am I not getting to do now or like if I'm not drinking, that means I'm not, you know, talking to that person and what are they, you know, and getting into this real like low vibrational way of being versus just acknowledging? Ok. So let's just put that away for now and let's focus on what do I now get to do?
Right. So taking a statement, navigation if I don't get to drink. So, but I do get to and then fill in the blank. So the easiest one is to go back to my first sobriety stint. Like, but I do get to go to the gym, right? Something that was in my periphery the whole time growing up. I'm like, man, I'd really like to like I was an athlete at one point. I'd love to get back in the gym.
It's kind of all those things that just clashed so badly with my party lifestyle though. It's not a good look when you're all hung over, going to the gym. Right? And yeah, I just never did. So, you know, having that energy just kind of pushing that away and go, ok, I do get to go to the gym now and I'm really enjoying that. And then, you know, before you know it, that's the type of energy that you're attracting, that you're putting out there that you're feeling that you're embodying and
then all of a sudden you have these, like all these like the coincidences and synchronicities and all these types of things line up, which is conversely exactly what happens if you do it on the other side of things, if you continue to perpetuate that statements of negation and things that you don't get to do. All you're doing is putting that out there and you're gonna get more of that, right?
So it's kind of like the don't think about the pink elephant, you think about the pink elephant? OK, let's just cancel that. Let's just think about something completely different. And so just really put your focus on that and you're gonna feel like even me gesturing that like I can feel this like dense energy that would be like the darkness.
And then when I speak of what I do get to do, I feel so much, much more expansive, like even just doing this little demonstration to you right now. So that would be AAA huge thing if there's anybody that's you know, and I know you talk about a variety of different things on your show. So this could apply to like addictive behavior, just mental health in general mindset changing.
Yeah, I think it's important to you know, your, your, you know, equality of thoughts is your quality of emotions, your quality of emotions, your quality of life, it starts with your thoughts and then it just flows outwards after that. So I wanted to mention that as well. Thank you.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that. And I feel like that leads perfectly into what are some words of wisdom that you have?
Matt Gardiner
Oh, yes, yeah. I always love being put on the spot, the words of wisdom. So this is the one I usually run with. Actually I got a couple of quick, quick little things. This one is the one I usually run with though is, you know, when you're, when you're feeling, you know, like alone or feeling the need to isolate and this again could be to many different topics that you've covered on your show, mental health.
But I'm gonna speak to addiction. Where are you feeling like I, I did a lot of drinking alone. I did a lot of, viewing my problem as though, you know. Yes, it is an addiction problem. So that's on the broad strokes. But the nuance of my addiction certainly I was, you know, by myself, nobody felt like the way I did, which, you know, partially true perhaps.
but the fact is that, you know, a lot of these stories that I thought were unique to me. A lot of the, you know, alone drinking stories and like, hold the lines that I would cross that I was so like, en robbed in shame and just, I, I couldn't even imagine telling anybody about the minute I started telling somebody about it, it was like that shame just had a permission to convert into like laughter or crying or whatever it may ended up being.
So that's what I'm getting at is like the connection piece, the, the ability to find somebody that you can authentically. And that was the second part I wanted to get into authentically. So auth authenticity to me and what mentor of mine put it this way. So, you know, I'll give him credit for it. Is the, the context that creates the ability to be authentic is the feeling of safety.
So when I got into like a support room, I felt immediately safe and I was able to just my persona just melted away this like ego, this this persona that I would filter my, my, you know, my, my phrasing through like the people pleaser persona essentially was gone, it dropped. And I, I can't explain it otherwise than like a huge spiritual just boom.
Here we go. And that's what it was my first meeting. I went to, I had this like shift and that was that connection. And I remember like doing a share where I was kinda like, oh yeah, like I did this barely creeping out of my mouth and persons is like, oh, that's like, that's my Tuesday morning like, and I was like, oh, like just hearing that back to me and realizing like, that's not even bad man.
You wanna hear a bad story. And then it's like there's some humor and just acknowledgment and realization that I am truly not alone and that like there is a share and there can be some humor to it because, you know, yes, I did some damage to myself, but it's in the past and what better way than to like, convert shame and dissolve it and resolve it and get out of your body than have a good laugh about it, right?
So, and that's from somebody that can understand you and again, that authentic side of you. And the final of this note that I like to say is like when you're talking about being authentic, my way of phrasing it is so au authenticity to me is if I'm just speaking like just straight from my heart and it's just like straight out, right? So if I have a persona or like an agenda or my ego catches it, it's like this force field that's like in between my heart and me speaking to you and that's when
it kind of gets divergent or distorted or I speak ambiguous or I'm speaking something, you know that, I mean, you know, there's a subtext to it. I'm speaking in riddles, right? I'm not speaking truthfully to you. I'm not being my true self to you. So that is my interpretation of authenticity is like you have to be feel safe, the persona can drop and you, you can speak straight from your heart without any kind of like divergent or distortion or anything else that you put on it.
Jenn Junod, Matt Gardiner
So those are my, my words of wisdom or my wisdom as II I didn't and I, I feel like they are very helpful.
Jenn Junod
Now I up next is like, tell us a bit about how people can reach out to you. Yeah, I would like to pause because we didn't really get to have a chance on bringing this up as much in the episode about how you're starting to give back after you've become alcohol free. Like what you were doing in July and, and how to reach out to you. So please include all of that.
Matt Gardiner
I will. Yeah, thanks. And I'll try and be as concise as possible. I'm very enthusiastic about it as you can imagine. So, yeah, as you mentioned, thanks for the opportunity to do this by the way. Yeah, I am. I'm at that stage where like, OK, if you ever heard of the hero's journey, you know, it's like you go through the stage of like, OK, you reach the calling, you realize you gotta change, then you do the like the dark night of the soul.
I believe it's called where you do this, like all this inner work and then you come out in phase three is you come back to society as it were and you have to share what you've learned and you're helping others do it. So I'm at that stage. So, yeah, I've started doing some sobriety coaching. I have a program called Recovery Road Map. And it's, so right now it's a 30 day challenge or 31 day challenge, depending on the month and you can sign up for it.
And it's like, there's usually groups of, you know, six people. So we just did the Dry July challenge. I'll just speak to that because we just did it. And it was six people ranging from like newly sober to, I had a gentleman that was 31 years sober and he just wanted to do a little kick start, you know, you know, a little, everything gets routined in life.
So he just wanted a little bit of a spark there and, and found it and it was great. So we do like group calls, weekly group calls, weekly Sunday events, which are usually an activity like a tai chi. We did yin yoga sound journey, group meditation, things of that nature. One on one coaching calls with myself, two throughout the month and daily check ins which was went over very, very well.
It's just like a quick, you know, one minute, like film yourself on your phone. Hey, I'm gonna do a body scan today. I feel a little bit tense. This is perhaps why I'm feeling that way. Just an awareness, exercise and an ability to be vulnerable. In front of, you know, at that point, strangers. And then by the end it was just beautiful how everybody was connecting and getting on each other's podcasts and all these lot of different things and very much, I was, I was like a proud papa even
though that no, you know, Children. But I, I felt that way. I'm like, oh, my goodness, it was like, beyond my expectations of how everybody just, like really gelled. It was a beautiful thing. So, you know, that's yeah, 30 day program. You know, if you're sober, curious or you need a kickstart to your sobriety, it's getting a little bit a little complacent perhaps or just early sobriety and, and you're looking for some help or you just like accountability or whatever reason you may
have. the recovery road map could be a really good option for you. Oh, and yes, where to find me. So, Recovery Road map.me is the website and my Instagram handle is also Recovery roadmap.me. So I made it nice and easy that way. And I have a youtube channel and Facebook.
It's Matt Gardner Live. Oh Final Thing Beyond Recovery, My podcast. And I'm hoping to have you and you're bringing a special guest along. So, Beyond Recovery is my podcast and a little foreshadowing for your for your listeners there.
Jenn Junod
I am and I'm very excited and I thank you again for joining the show today. Last, but not least what is something that you're grateful for?
Matt Gardiner
Oh, yeah, grateful for. Hm. You know, the first thing that came to mind is, I'm, I'm working a lot on recalibrating my breath. So just breathing, it sounds super simple. But when I have been working on my, my breathing and just being, aware of it, it's like unlocked so many different things in my life. So I am, grateful for the work that I've been doing on my breathing.
Jenn Junod
I dig it, I dig it and I would say that I am grateful for it sounds weird. But because you mentioned it kind of like just put context to my, my thoughts of the hero's journey and coming out on the other side and being able to advocate for others, especially when they're not able to advocate for themselves.
Matt Gardiner
That's beautiful, that's powerful.
Jenn Junod
That is, that is definitely because I, I really, really felt your story and being able to see people on that other side of just being so proud of them because they did all the work. It was just, it was just, you know, you weren't going to let you weren't going to put up with their bullshit and I very much value that. So thank you again, Matt for being on the show.
Matt Gardiner
Thank you very much, Jen. Bye bye.
