S1 E28 Shit2TalkAbout Gut Health with Trish Whetstone
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Jenn Junod
Hey Trish, thank you for joining shit. You don't want to talk about today. What is some shit you want to talk about and please introduce yourself?
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, having me. My name is Trish. I am the feel good gut girl, a gut health coach for people dealing with tummy issues. So the shit that I'd love to talk about is just that shit.
Jenn Junod
And yay, I'm so glad we're talking about this.
Trish Whetstone
You and yay.
Jenn Junod
And I mean, so for all of our listeners, Trish and I have had so many technical issues or reschedules or we've been working on doing this interview, I think since October and we're recording in January, which is hilarious because they're spaced out just enough that I don't remember the questions that I've always asked you, which is great. So I'm super excited for us to do this today. And to jog my memory too. How did you become a health coach? Gut coach?
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was really from personal experience, like I think a lot of people in this field I was kind of health conscious, like I just was interested in health when I was younger but not really conscious. Truly, like, I, I never really had like food issues or anything like that until my early twenties. And then all of a sudden I was waking up, like no joke. I, I felt like I would like be like wake up feeling like I got hit by a bus, like I was so sore so lethargic, I brain fog,
I had like every digestive concern in the book and I started to just kind of explore nutrition and, and health in general. And I stumbled upon health coaching, which I really liked because it was holistic. And so I joined my first health coaching program really just to help myself. And then of course, my passion grew from there and I was kind of like, ok, I've, I've cracked the code in a sense. And I wanna help other people do the same with themselves.
Jenn Junod
Very cool. And what did you find out about going through that to help yourself?
Trish Whetstone
What did I find out so many plethora of things. I think one, the first biggest like lesson that I learned was that we do have the ability to take back our health. And like a lot of it is in our control, even if we feel like we're kind of at wits end and we're in pain and we've tried all the things we do have a lot of influence over like disease states and discomfort just by modifying how we approach things, how we approach food, how we approach stress in our relationships, how we move our
bodies and and those things really can be significant. I continue to say to this day that I will do this forever and always still forget just how important sleep is like how much that affects my mental and physical health and my digestion. So sometimes those simple things can really be huge needle movers for your overall health.
Jenn Junod
Very cool. Thank you. And that, that reminds me of a guest we had, I believe in December, Darcy. She actually has MS and they make sure that they're doing it every single day, like doing movement and yoga and they showcase it on, on their Tik Tok and Instagram and showing how that mobility. Yes. Not all days are created equal yet. It helps them with their MS quite a bit and staying mobile.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, I think I love what you just said about all days aren't created equal and I think that's another huge takeaway, huge message that I always wanna get across when it comes to health is everybody is different. Everybody is different. So what works for? You might not work for someone else. What works for them might not work for you. And your own journey is also change and transform.
So a lot of times I hear people say, but I used to be able to eat dairy my entire life or I never had an issue with this or that or I would sit on the couch all day and it never affected me. But our bodies transform and change in different phases of our life. So always being curious and recognizing that like if you're willing to try things out, and even just like be consistent with things and create those routines for yourself, that's gonna have a huge impact rather than like judging
yourself and thinking, oh, should I have this figured out by now or you know, Can I just skip this or that or, or what have you just kind of recognizing that the journey is not linear, it's very flexible and ever changing.
Jenn Junod
I think that's a great call out. I, I know for myself and we were talking a bit about this before we started recording of, I actually Yeah. OK. So in all honesty, I probably could have never eaten gluten or dairy. It was always like, I actually have my gallbladder removed in high school. And thinking back, I, I actually wonder if I ever actually needed to in the fact that I, even now if I eat too much gluten and mattering on the type of dairy, I will get to that.
Same, like how you were talking about brain fog. I would get to the bathroom and like, I would be not that it's fun to talk about, you know, with anyone, but I would get, if I eat like, let's say ice cream and you know, real bread, I would be feeling like I need to go to the bathroom constantly and not able to because the lactose and the gluten would contradict each other and I would be in so much pain and that was before and after my gallbladder and it was also the brain fog, the tiredness
like, yeah, I know I have other stuff going on too, but it was definitely way worse. And when I went, I tried gluten free just to give it a shot. And when I, I went to go visit my cousin and she actually was like, dude, you're going gluten free so you can't eat that. And she actually kept calling me out all weekend. And it was marvelous because I was like, oh, that has gluten that has gluten.
Oh, that's crazy. It was quite the journey to learn it. And I'm fortunate enough that I can have a bit of gluten that it's gluten sensitivity, not a, like, like celiac and with dairy, this is the part that completely surprised me and took me off guard. I cut dairy out of my diet as well because milk or ice cream or sour cream or alfredo sauce would all make me horribly sick.
So, I figured all dairy made me horribly sick and I've been dairy free since 2017. So I can count four years almost. And, I hardcore was like, I can't keep watching everybody else eat normal pizza. I can eat pizza real pizza because dairy free cheese, at least for my, in my opinion, is disgusting. I agree. So I just had to go for it. I still got gluten free and I was like, I'm not dying.
What is this? Ok. So I would keep trying it and give it another shot and then because I hadn't been able to have real pizza in so long, I, I think I was eating it almost every other day just because I was so excited to be able to, like, finally have it. And then I was like, ok, eating a whole frozen pizza is not the best idea that I did find out more about eating cheese in other ways to up my protein intake such as cheese sticks or those baby bells or like, there's so many different options and
that completely changed to what I thought. And from where I started and a big reason that I also cut dairy out of my system was inflammation. So can you tell us a bit about inflammation and how our food really affects that?
Trish Whetstone
I think your thank you so much for sharing your per your personal example because I think it's like a perfect example and I use it to kind of explain this inflammation. First of all, is a natural response of our body. You know, if we have a cut or an injury, inflammation happens literally for us to kind of start to heal. So it is normal to have a bit of inflammation when something becomes disease is when there's too much inflammation, it's chronic, it doesn't go away or we becoming
inflamed when we don't have like an actual injury and we're just consuming you know, piece of food. So there are, I like to think of it as like there's spectrums of inflammation and you just exemplified that that on one end of the spectrum, there might be certain foods that always causes inflammation like a true aller allergy and autoimmune condition like celiacs disease where the body literally starts to attack the intestines upon ingestion of gluten.
And then there's like the other end where it's like two things can happen. One, maybe it's only certain types of that food or maybe it's like I can't eat that food when I'm also stressed out because my body is under some inflammation when I'm stressed out or it is sometimes just like our body needs a break. So sometimes our body just needs a reset, a detox.
So we need to get rid of certain inflammatory foods, dairy, for example, for a while, then we can add it back in and, and maybe it's, you know, certain foods or certain amounts of dairy as long as I eat it kind of in moderation or maybe it's just certain cheeses that cause less inflammation for me. But really, I think we can look at inflammation as identifying the things that are always inflammatory, identifying when our body just needs a ref a reset and we, you know, take time to
intentionally eat more clean anti-inflammatory foods. And then that balancing point of like, ok, maybe certain foods cause me inflammation sometimes, sometimes they don't, maybe it depends on, you know, how inflamed I am already, if I'm already sick. Versus if I've just kind of given myself a reset if that makes sense.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And II I like that you brought up that it, there's different foods and it really is on a scale yet. So is inflammation just like this is the first thing that came to mind, like eating bleat beans and you're super bloated and you're super gassy. Is that inflammation or like what does inflammation show up as like how does, how do we know the difference between being bloated and inflammated?
Trish Whetstone
That is a really good question and one that I'm going to be honest, it's like kind of still being researched. I don't know the full answer on that, but I'm also like, pretty sure that science doesn't fully know the answer. your example of like bloating and eating beans, sometimes that's not inflammation per se. OK. So we can use beans like certain high fod mat beans, which are like ferment, carbohydrates and basically what's happening there is it's certain types of foods that go
through. First of all, the small intestine, they're not fully broken down just because that person's digestive system can't break it down. It's not inflammation per se. So then some of that food travels to the large intestine and it kind of pulls in some bacteria and bacteria is what causes gas bloating all of those things. So it's kind of like more of a mechanism of things just being processed through the digestive system abnormally.
So sometimes that's present with digestive concerns. I would say typically, what we're finding as like inflammation is when something is chronically happening over and over and over again, that's likely a sign that there's like inflammation in the digestive tract, certain conditions like inflammatory bowel disease means that there's literally inflammation in the intestines.
But you know, I think it's, it's a wonderful call out and, and wonderful question because there's some schools of thought that say irritable bowel syndrome then is not inflammatory. And then there's other schools of thought saying no, there's always inflammation happening there. So I just, I'm gonna be like honest with you. I try and take in the research and just kind of convey that to people like there may or may not be a level of inflammation happening.
But I think another good indicator that there's definitely chronic inflammation is if you have secondary symptoms like brain fog every day or for me, it's a lot of acne and skin rashes. And that happens after a period of high stress, a period of really eating processed foods that I know are probably causing that inflammation.
You know, I had a lot of joint pain, for example, headaches, things like that where it's like, ok, maybe my digestive system is slowed down or you know, that motility that movements out of whack, but maybe there's also some inflamed tissue in my body as well.
Jenn Junod
And thank you for being honest with us on that. And I think that that really makes me think about too what? And, and this is specific with dairy, at least for when people have talked to me about it before is dairy makes you inflam?
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
Why can I not say the word lamed?
Trish Whetstone
It's so weird because you want to put like inflammation and inflame together. Yes.
Jenn Junod
So I was always told that dairy would make you inflamed and that actually meant that you're gonna be poofy. So, yeah, like it was poofy, not poofy.
Trish Whetstone
Like, so this is a real, that's a really good point too. I think it's important to talk about inflammation because inflammation is kind of like whenever there's any sort of disease or disorder, there's some inflammation happening there. But I think it's almost, and I come from the holistic health world. I think it's so important that we're having these conversations that sometimes traditional medicine, like kind of pushes down like you don't have inflammation.
But I also think that maybe it's kind of one of those buzzwords where like what does inflammation really mean? And yeah, so, so typically, like, I kind of like to think of it as like your cells are just kind of working overtime to, to detox to heal some sort of cut or wound or maybe to heal some sort of like state within the body. But yeah, so inflammation isn't per seh puffiness like bloating, but it could be, it could be it isn't always accompanied by pain, but usually like we will feel
some experience of pain if we have inflammation in our intestines because we have Crohn's disease. We're probably gonna feel that if we have inflammations in our, in our knee joints because we're missing some cartilage there and we'll probably feel some pain. but it could be some swelling there too. But I think internal inflammation is a little bit different than like the swelling that comes from like a broken leg.
So when we're talking about like internally maybe dairy inflam us, we don't always see that from the outside. And that's sometimes the hardest part about like God health concerns is that people can say, but you look so healthy, you look totally fine. We can't see that that's all like the storm that's kind of happening within, within our own bodies inside.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And that, that's a great call out because I know for myself and this is something that I, I've been listening to a lot of podcasts like science versus, and, and things like that. I love that podcast. It's that it used to be that people used to think that acne was caused by eating too much chocolate or eating too much greasy food. And what I've found for myself is a lot of times it can be hormonal that really causes it for me.
And I'm definitely not looking forward to it. I get to find out next month. I'm having a hysterectomy. So I'm like, post hysterectomy. We're gonna find out like, I don't know how that's gonna affect my body, you know, and it's, thank you. Thank you. It's definitely something that I've noticed and to me this, this does collaborate, I think might be the best word with gut health in the fact that, you know, for women, at least for myself. And this is a big reason I'm having the
hysterectomy. I, and like, so sick when I'm on my period and I, I ask about this because I've been hearing a lot about like, microbiomes. Is that what it's called? And, and I'm, and basically, you know, the, the good germs or good stuff in your tummy and if you get that balanced out, it can help with, you know, hormones and stuff like that and, and I'm, I'm just curious a, like, what knowledge do you have of that? And what, how does it help or not help?
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, thanks for asking this question. This is kind of the foundation of gut health. and something that is well researched and something that I actually know a little bit more than like your question on inflammation. So the gut microbiome is a collection of bacteria, viruses and fungi housed within the gut. And when we say the gut, we're talking about the small intestine.
But when I say gut health, you know, our whole digestive system from our mouth to our esophagus, down to our stomach, to our intestine colon out the other end, all like interacts and plays together. So this microbiome like has an influence on the rest of our body as well. But we're talking about like right in the small intestine trillions of bacteria and things that we have, we can call them microbes or little critters.
And essentially the microbiome is kind of like this ecosystem kind of like a rain forest. We want it to be diverse. We want there to be more helpful or good bacteria, good microbes than bad. We all have some bad bacteria naturally living in us. That's normal. As long as we have enough good to kind of like take the seats of the bad. Like, imagine they're all playing musical chairs.
You want the good bacteria to have seeds, or like soldiers fighting them off. Right. We can think about this in so many ways. But essentially when we have a strong microbiome and it's like a lot of diverse, different bacteria and microbes, we have a stronger immune system because about 70% of our immune response is housed here in the microbiome in our gut.
We have better mental health because about 95% and this was like huge for me. 95% of the body's serotonin, our feel good kind of mood neurotransmitter that also affects sleep is made in the gut. And I say that was so insightful for me because I studied psychology in college and we talked about neurotransmitters all time and we never talked about how, you know, what we feed our gut matters for these neurotransmitters.
because, you know, a lot of this is housed within the gut and other hormones like melatonin which affect our sleep and can affect our you know, menstrual cycle and things like that are also kind of made and influenced by this microbiome. So sometimes when we say and this, I'll, I'll use this to kind of bring it back to our previous conversation sometimes.
And I am even I'm not gonna say guilty of this. I think that this is just kind of how some of the terminology is. We say, oh, your gut is inflamed. But kind of what we're saying is there's a dyb or an imbalance and there's more bad bacteria than good. And that's what causes this disease state. That's what causes more painful periods. That's what's causing you to be bloated and gassy all the time.
And so we can certainly talk more about like how to fuel this microbiome and all that stuff. But that's the general gist of like that word is getting a lot of buzz and technically for good reason because, you know, there's a lot of research showing it, it affects a lot of our health.
Jenn Junod
Interesting, interesting and it's, it's so interesting to me that when we talk about food and we talk about our food system and having healthy gut health, it really does make me think about how much and I'm mentioning it, but I will not go down this rabbit hole but like how much pesticides like even, you know, there's been science showing how even on organic, it's just a different pesticide that can be used on them and still be called organic.
And it's just so interesting that basically unless you grow it yourself. You have no idea what's showing up on it. and how that can really affect your gut health and without even knowing that it's affecting your gut health.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, that's a really good point. And we don't have to go down like a total rabbit hole. But like the one minute Ted talk on this is like what you just said and, and really essentially the fact that, there is a lot of like foreign substances that we've been introducing into our body in the last 100 years, that kind of were never meant to be there, right?
We genetically modify our foods, we put pesticides and chemicals on them. That's going to disrupt that, that delicate balance, that's within our microbiome. So it is relevant and I think that what I typically say to people as a rule of thumb because a lot of that has to happen at the policy level and we can't always, unfortunately control that, which sucks, but you can control to an extent what you put in your body and just choosing like at least if it looks like it came from a far more
so than a factory, you know, more wholesome cleaner foods as clean as you can get versus the processed foods and really a good variety like the microbe, the microbes in the microbiome. there's so many different strains and they like different foods. So you're gonna have a healthier microbiome here. It's cucumbers, kale, like all sorts of different plant based foods versus just like relying on your three every week.
And I think that's something that people overlook is like variety and just how important that is to, to fuel this like robust rainforest. There's so many different types of plants and like beautiful colorful plants and animals in the rainforest. And we kind of want that for our microbiome as well.
Jenn Junod
Interesting you, you mentioned about process versus how exactly did you say it from the farm?
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, like farm versus a factory, right?
Jenn Junod
Versus factory. I really like that because but so processed food a I'm guilty of processed food as well because it's so easy, it can be so easy, can be so easy.
Trish Whetstone
And in our, in our lifestyle, like the reality of our culture nowadays is that we're gonna have to rely on a box food every now and again. Like we're just going to have to.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah. And so can you share with me a bit of what makes processed food, processed food? Like give me like maybe some examples of what, what is you know, from farm versus factory.
Trish Whetstone
So farm is literally like an apple that you can pick off the tree the most extreme. And I feel like everything is on a spectrum, truthfully like every metaphor of life could be on a spectrum. So I'm gonna say this again. That's like, OK, your neighbor. Joanie is a, is a farmer. If you pluck it right out of her ground, that's like the most farm that you can get.
And then there's like the produce that you'll get from the grocery store, it's not packaged. It's still a whole food. We don't know how far it's traveled. Right. That's the, the intricate, like workings of, like, our food system and how it's kind of crappy, but we don't have to go there per se. And then package, package package is, it's made in a factory.
So even if you had whole wheat pasta and the ingredients were just whole wheat. If it comes in a box or a wrapper, it's technically packaged, meaning it has to be processed in a factory. It's not like we just pluck that wheat out of the ground, right? And some foods we can't just eat wholesome like that. They need to have some sort of process to make them that way.
But that whole wheat pasta with the only the ingredient of whole wheat pasta is still more wholesome, less processed than cheez its with an ingredient list super long that you probably can't read most of the ingredients on there. And some of them are completely like synthetic chemicals that our body really kind of, you know, our bodies are amazing and they can process a lot technically, but in the long term that contributes to disease and discomfort and pain.
And then I just think the, the other main point to focus on when it comes to processed foods is it could take a whole food and change it or break it down where it's not as easily absorbed or broken down by the body than if we ate it whole. So I'm trying to think of an example. We've talked about cheese a lot, right? You take a block of mozzarella that's gonna be way more easily processed by your body.
I keep using process and that's gonna be confusing for people. It's way more like absorbed and digested easily by the body than the crackers that say made with meal real mozzarella. But it's like baked and like all these other things are added to it, you know, like how much real mozzarella is actually there. And so it's Yeah, yeah.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
And so you have your tea there and like peppermint tea, it says ingredients, peppermint.
Trish Whetstone
So that is pretty much the most wholesome, clean and celestial is like one of my favorite tea brands.
Jenn Junod
And aren't they? I they are in Boulder, I believe, I believe I actually went on tour here.
Trish Whetstone
That is so cool.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
I got it to Colorado pre pandemic.
Jenn Junod
This place is awesome. And yeah, I went on tour there.
Trish Whetstone
Go, I'm such like a tea nerd. That's awesome. And peppermint is great for the guy, by the way, it calms inflammation things we were talking about.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
And you know, this is technically not tea, anything herbal is technically not tea, only tea leaves are technically technically tea almost like how, you know, almond milk isn't really milk, right?
Trish Whetstone
Milk has to come from an animal. Ok. So what is that considered an herbal drink?
Jenn Junod
Yes, herbal drink. I mean, it still says I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it says herbal tea.
Trish Whetstone
But, and that's a good example of a healthier processed food package. It's technically in a package. But how many of us have peppermint leaves right there that we can, you know, put and brew and we, we could do that, but it's also convenient, easy in way more of, a concentration than if we had to pluck, you know, 15 peppermint leaves. but if you know that, for example, said peppermint and meld and all these things which are processed versions of whole foods, you know, just really
quickly, a lot of the foods that we put in processed foods to make them more shelf stable, less likely to spoil are modified versions of wheat, corn and soy. And what are some of the top food sensitivities, wheat corn and soy. The ones that we're kind of fueling ourselves in a, in a processed version versus just eating them at their, at their whole list state.
Jenn Junod
I know that soy isn't technically in soy sauce. But did you know gluten is in soy sauce?
Trish Whetstone
Yes, I did know gluten is in soy sauce. Yeah. And wheat is typically like the second, it's, it's typically like water and then wheat in soy sauce. And I know that because so many times I've accidentally been gluten and gotten really sick from, you know, eating, eating soy sauce. because you can buy gluten free brands. But it's one of those things where, you know, those food triggers, can be really hidden in a lot of different foods.
Jenn Junod
Yes, thank you. And, and I like to at least the example in my head. when you talked about the spectrum of a farmer factory is you said the apple versus I would say like apple sauce. Because if you look at the actual ingredients, I've bought apple sauce that it just literally says apples. Yeah, we cool. I've also bought apple sauce that has added sugar, a bunch of things.
I have no idea what it says and it does taste different and it's weird because I'm like, oh, this is good. I want more. I want more. I want out of it. I want out of it. And that, that does bring me to my next question and I find this for myself. So I'm curious if like you've heard this from other people. I find myself after I eat especially if it's something salty.
I crave sweets. I crave sweets more than anything. I am a sweet aholic like and, and you and I talked about this for a hot minute beforehand. But I for the listeners, my insurance randomly called me and we're like, yo you wanna work with a dietician? And I was like, no, I don't want to spend money and they were like, cool. It's free.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
I was like, oh, ok.
Trish Whetstone
That's awesome. Sure.
Jenn Junod
And I it it's been pretty cool and I, I mentioned that in the fact of I never thought that this information was always very accessible and I didn't know I didn't know there were coaches like you out there. I didn't know that it could be something that I could work through with my insurance and so many insurances are starting to show that. So as I've been working through all of that, I've, it's brought up more and more questions yet at the same time, I'm like, ok, so I am totally a sweet
aholic and if it's in the house, I must eat it. Like if there's no sweets in the house, I'm pretty ok. I can go weeks. Ok, probably a week and a half. Let's be real without sweets. But if I get a thing of or like gluten free Oreos, that thing is gone within 48 hours.
Trish Whetstone
Not great.
Jenn Junod
I'm the same way and, and then something else that my dietitian and I have noticed is I go days where I eat like 2000 calories or 600 calories with is not awesome because he doesn't know what the hell it is doing. And so I'm, I'm really curious if you could fill us in a bit more about why some of us crave food so much.
Trish Whetstone
Hm. Gosh. This one is such a good question and I think I will preface it by saying I'll do my best, but I do think we could, like, go on and on and on and on talking about this and attacking it from so many different angles. but one is inadequate nutrition and that could mean a lot of things. It's one you're not getting enough calories and you're not getting enough food, you're not getting protein, you're not getting enough fat, you're not getting enough natural fibrous carbohydrate,
car, carbohydrates, carbs that keep us full and give us energy. sugar and carbs are natural fuel or energy force or yeah, energy source force. I guess that works too like it. Yeah, as humans, we need some of that. So let's say that we're not getting enough food. We're going to first crave sugar because it's gonna give us a spike of energy AAA quick raise in our blood sugar and your body is just thinking, hey, you need energy to sustain yourself.
It's only 4 p.m. right? So sometimes it's that we're not getting enough nutrition. along those same lines, it could be, those are kind of macronutrients that I just said carbs fat and protein. We need all three of those. And then there's micronutrients which are like our vitamins and minerals. We also wanna need a good balance of those. We don't have to get it to specifics.
But let's say maybe there is like a vitamin or mineral deficiency and your body again, sometimes we will just go to like what it knows. So if you're a sweet person, it's gonna say go back to the sweet, you need something, you need some sort of energy source on another level. When we don't get enough sleep, our blood sugar drops. And again, our blood sugar kind of has this natural up and down and we wanna keep it adequately nourished with food.
But let's just say you're like super fatigued or you're super stressed out. stress and lack of rest and stuff can kind of mimic those dips where our body again is kind of gotta go to sugar. And then I think the last component, which is really interesting. I guess I will say there's two more components here. One, there is a slight I'm gonna use this word lightly but like addictive process.
And I say that because my, my career that I did for about five years prior to gut health coaching was substance use. So the whole addiction process is one that can be complicated. We could talk depths and depths about that. But as essential when we kind of get hooked on something, we crave it more. And there is research showing that sugar isn't a drug per se, it's just a food but it can have addictive quality and habitual responses similar to that of cocaine.
They've like, done research in rats where they'll habitually go towards the sugar even over like other food and drugs as well. So it kind of just shows how, as humans, we're creatures of habit and when it comes to sugar, it's typically not like a drug thing. It's not like a, a, you know, it does release that dopamine response in the brain similar to drugs, that pleasure.
But part of that's just because like it tastes good. So our taste buds are lit up and then that spikes dopamine and our body feels good because our brain feels good and then it's this habitual response. And one thing you said before, which I thought was super duper wise that I wanted to highlight was that the way we process foods now is kind of feeding into these habits and these addictive qualities that we all have and that, you know, sugar and certain modified forms of sugar are
added to our food, processed foods. Literally to be addictive, literally to be something that we crave more and more because they hit the taste buds so hard that then we get a dopamine rush or that feel good, rush in the brain and we want to go back to it. And my final note on this is they could totally just be super duper emotional or learned behavior.
We've always learned to cope with sweets. So we continue to cope with sweets and that's just a learned response throughout our whole lifetime. So that was my like five minute ted. I love it. It's so good. I'm glad you went there.
Jenn Junod
I, I love it because like as you're talking about like the dopamine and things like that and for everyone listening, if you haven't realized up to this point, especially if you're watching on the youtube, I am super A DH D as you guys can probably see, I always move around a lot. Not always a good part about being a DH D. I also can go in la la land while other people are talking or forget about what I'm talking about.
Mid sentence. It's not great but you know, you, you live to deal with it. So totally admitting myself of while you're talking about this and talking about the addictive nature and how it's a dopamine is. I love the, the taste and texture of flaw. Oh Yeah. Like I don't know why I'm a very, very much a texture person. Like I need mushrooms. Hate them, hate them.
Trish Whetstone
I don't like mushrooms either for the texture.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And for everyone listening, I've been told so many times they're just not being cooked, right? I have had mushrooms every single way possible. I do not like them. I don't like the way they smell. I don't like the way they taste. I do not like their texture. But it's also like water chestnuts, water chestnuts and stuff. I'm like, you don't mix that type of crunchy with the, the soft, like in a stir fry.
Drives me insane. Which is totally weird. Y'all my family and friends I feel for them because I am way too much of a picky eater yet. I really don't mean to be my, my dietitian that I'm working with has learned that I don't like peppers or like mixing these consistencies. If I, if I could eat vegetarian, I would, my household doesn't, so I'll eat meat.
You know, other people kick, I'll eat meat, but, you know, I personally would rather eat vegetarian and I also don't eat, unless it's very easy to make, I'm a grab and go kind of person and I'm hungry. If I'm not hungry, I'm totally fine making something. But if I'm hungry I am a grab and go. Like, it doesn't matter what it is, I will start eating bread or crackers if I'm really hungry. You sure? It's not the best? And so she came up with this or she found a recipe for me that was like a white
bean, feta tomatoes, a little bit of olive oil and vinegar, I think. And it was absolutely delicious. It lasted me all week. Like, I have like a scuba day and I was like, oh, that's good. And this whole flawn thing going through my head is it kind of reminded me of like poofy omelet or like frittata or something and I'm not sure why that all, you know, went together, but that's where my head went when you were talking about.
Trish Whetstone
I think you make a super good point that I think it's again, this is like, so cool that you brought this up because I think it sometimes looks over when we think about like, can foods be addictive? How can't we just like stay to eat, stay on track and eat this way and that way? But really there's a lot that goes into the process of eating and its its simplest form, food is just nourishment.
But food also is emotional for us comfort. It's part of culture, it's celebration for those of us who are kind of like highly sensitive, I'm kind of sensitive to textures too. And there are people that are just like that and so it doesn't matter if it's a nutritious food that, that works well with your body if like the texture isn't there or the flavor or the convenience of making it isn't there.
So those are like the interest ins and outs that y you know, really you sh you, you would do yourself a favor of learning about yourself. So I think that whenever you go on this journey, it's not just going on a specific eating plan or you know, just, you know, hiring the person to tell me what to do or, or getting rid of this or adding in that. It's really a journey of constantly getting to know yourself and recognizing that there are intricate layers.
Like I know that I can be all hyped up for eating anything healthy. But like once like an emotional stressor hits me, I'm like, screw it out the door because I'm like, very sensitive to those things or if I'm physically tired that also affects my cravings. And so the journey is recognizing those things about yourself. And so I glad you went there because I do think that it's, it's often that's what a lot of my time is with myself when I'm focusing on my gut health.
And a lot of what I help my clients with is like the journey to continually learn these little quirks about yourself, accept them, approach them with curiosity rather than judgment and be like, ok, these are the ins and outs of how I'm gonna be successful long term knowing that I don't like mushrooms, but I like this bean salad and flan. I don't know how you feel about that. You just kept saying flan. Do you like the texture of flan or? No? Love it.
Jenn Junod
It's my favorite. Ok? You love it.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
But it's all like I looked it up and it's almost, but it's all sugar and I'm like, I don't know.
Jenn Junod
And that's been a big thing for me too of. And I, I want to get back to you talking about your journey here in a moment and like the food journey is for myself is a lot of finding something that I like that. I like the taste of and just glancing at a recipe to see if I can, if I think that it is manageable. I also want to say that I just started learning how to cook a few years ago.
I say that and the fact that many, many have tried to teach me how to cook and it was never that they were bad teachers. It was always, I had, didn't have any interest and I'm never going to cook. I refuse. And then one day I was like, oh huh. I can make that for cheaper than I can buy that. I don't wanna give that a shot. It doesn't always turn out great.
But, you know, there's a big learning curve and, and the biggest thing that I wanna go back on that you were talking about and is the fact that where do people start? Because I know for myself, especially before I went gluten free. I never looked at ingredients. I never noticed that I don't eat very much or there'll be days where I eat a ton and there's days that I don't eat anything. It took me forever to realize I love french fries.
I love French fries. Like French fries and sweets are like my go to thing. Not all French fries. Are created equal and yet French fries for myself don't have that same addictive quality that he do for me. But if I'm in a bad mood, if I'm in any mood, French fries are my go to. But like when I'm in a bad mood, they're more of my go to because they're carby.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah. Sure. Sure. I think that, you know, where do people start with the journey of gut health? I think I've kind of made this point already, but I, I honestly like to think of and this is my personal opinion, but there is a lot of science here. I think gut health and mental health are essentially one and the same. I think that, you know, we've said this in previous conversations, but just a little snippet is when we're in the sympathetic nervous system response, that's our stress
response. Digestion literally shuts down because evolution narrowly blood draws away from our digestion so we can run away from the bear or fight it off. Your body says digesting your lunch right now is no longer important. And so stress has a huge impact on our digestion. I already said our gut health, you know, affects neurotransmitters like serotonin.
So I truly think that if you're if you're starting on the the gut health journey, and it's also one of mental health, you know, one of the things that you can do is just to start with a practice of mindfulness and you, you know, kind of inspired me intuitively to say, why not this be your first step? People ask me this question all the time, like, where do you start?
And I think it's the awareness of starting to just look at your ingredient list. Start to just like, think about food throughout your day and not like, judge yourself yet or say you have to become like a, you know, a chef and like get everything right and make everything in your house organic, but just start to become aware of your habits. Just notice like, ok, do I have a lot of processed food in the house?
Oh, am I someone who kind of skips meals? Do I only eat when I'm emotional? You know, what, what capacity do I have for cooking? Does it need to be a quick 10 minute meal or do I like to get creative in the kitchen and kind of start to take that inquiry of like vision out what you'd ideally like and then just be like, well, where am I at right now? And then I'll give one tool that I think is the simplest easiest, no cost.
Well, I won't say easiest because easier said than done sometimes the, you know, accessible from anywhere, completely free gut health tip that you can always access. And that's mindful eating. Meaning set a timer for 20 minutes. See if you can actually eat throughout that time rather than scarfing down your meal, chew each bite of food about 20 to 30 times until it's like apple sauce consistency.
Digestion actually starts in the head when we look at our food and we smell it and we appreciate it. We start to excrete natural enzymes in the saliva and body to break down food. Yeah. Yeah. Like our brain and our body is that powerful that we actually about 20% of our stomach acid to break down food is actually released in this cephalic phase, which means head when we're like appreciating our food and then our teeth do like a huge job of breaking down cell walls of food and things like
that. And we just like how many of us like 123 like, you know, swallow and done. And before you even like change what you're eating, you can change how you're eating and try and eat in a slower, more mindful way. And you might realize that acid reflux bloating gas start to decrease for you. And then you can do the like complicated like diet changes and all that stuff. But I think like mindfulness as it were is just really a simple, easy, no cost way to start.
Jenn Junod
Thank you for that. And I 100% agree and, and I do wanna say for anyone that no matter where you are on this stage is this is a journey and it is definitely a long term journey. Not a sprint. It is. I have definitely gone up and down like, you know, I, I think I've gone from, you know, being on top of Mount Everest with my good eating to, you know, I wanna chill at the bottom of the Grand Canyon and eat, you know, whatever I want.
I know for myself. I am also very, I do. There are a lot of types of food I like yet. It matters on who I'm with. Tyler doesn't, he's type one diabetic which means that he has to think about his food even more than I do. And so he does not always want to go try new foods because then he has to relearn everything and it can, it can be life or death. And so I'll eat a lot of the foods he eats, which, especially when we first got together.
He was eating a lot of processed foods. So I was just like, oh, that's easier. I'll just eat what he eats, which, after so many years of being together, people still get really weirded out. We don't always eat, ok. We hardly ever eat the same thing unless it's tacos.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
Yeah, that's like the one meal that we, ok is tacos.
Trish Whetstone
So, my, my boyfriend and I, I've gotten him to eat but he doesn't have a lot of the same food sensitivities as I do and he'll kind of eat whatever I make. But, you know, we've, we also sometimes will be eating different things. But we can agree on tacos too. How funny tacos bring everyone together.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, they do. Tacos are the best and it's definitely something that, but if I'm with my vegan friends, totally down to go to a vegan restaurant. If I'm with friends that want to go have sushi or Thai or Indian or, you know, like, I'm down to, like, try it all, like, and find delicious flavors and foods. So that's something that I learned about myself is my adaptability is a strength. It is also something that I need to be cognizant of because that also changes my consistency and food
intake. Also just writing it down and telling my current dietitian it actually was, I was putting down all the food I was eating throughout the day and the times. And that's when we both realized I was fluctuating from 2000 to like 800 calories per day and not eating consistently because I know that I am taking medication that suppresses my appetite. A lot of times I don't realize I'm tired till I am struggling staying awake.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, sure.
Jenn Junod
Super, super crabby. Like I'm not actually getting the instinct to eat and other days I do and I eat so much food. So it's about creating that consistency as well. So I love the fact that you mentioned mindfulness of our food and I'm totally having when I have dinner later tonight, I'm gonna try eating slower because when I get excited about food, I normally eat it. Oh my God.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
In like three minutes, I'm, I'm a very well, I'll be, I'll be super honest.
Trish Whetstone
That's something that I've been, like, teaching sharing for like a long time now. And I'm still a quick eater. I constantly have to remind myself of a mind, remind myself of that. And like, again, it's a testament to it being a journey. Something that like when you're cognizant of it again, just practicing that mindfulness, like maybe then starting to just like, take down what you're eating and like a little food log and just like, see when you, when it's reflected back to you, you
can see a lot more patterns than when we're just guessing out of the blue. And that is the journey of like starting to like, you know, get to know your body what it needs, you know, starting to respect it and you can only respect what your body needs when you're like, aware of it.
Jenn Junod, Trish Whetstone
So just start to like, become aware and, and thank you for that.
Jenn Junod
That is something that I've had to learn myself in the fact of also that my gut health is, is very different than my size and my weight. I, I say that in the fact of not a lot of people almost, they've known me for many years that I used to weigh. and I'll say this in us me, measures is I used to weigh around 2 52 60 that was approximately a US size 18. And I over the course of roughly 10 years from the age of 20 to the age of 30.
The, on my 30th birthday, I was a size six and at that moment I was a size six. I was the smallest I'd ever been. My hair looked amazing. I was traveling the world and I still felt so ugly and so fat and absolutely horrible. And now I am a size 1012 ish. I don't know, I'm not actually, I think I'm a size 10, I think because my pants from May still fit. They were a size 10.
and it's, it's crazy to me because especially with doing this podcast and with what I like to call my real job, I'm on video I have to edit, I have to see myself and this is something that even you and I, I had commented to you. It feels really weird not having makeup on because I'm so used to just wearing makeup. I love makeup and I have to see my in these videos especially mattering on how I sit, I have to see my arms and if they move weird or if I look funny and I get my f or if I turn to the side and
I'm like, but this isn't as fun as it used to be and that is one of the hardest lessons that I've had to learn and sometimes still struggle with is taking care of my body is in what I eat. Doesn't have anything to do with my image. Yeah. Yes, they can be connected. But I mean it, in the fact of I had to learn to love myself if I'm eating everything perfectly.
I had to learn that curiosity that you mentioned instead of that judgment when I mess up or when I want to have that glass of wine or when I decide to have sweets and this, I know we could talk about forever as well.
Trish Whetstone
We could, we could, I'll, I'll just share a little bit like one again. Thank you for always sharing your experience. I think it, it provides like just that insight and that like safe space for listeners and, and everyone and so it's, it's beautiful that you've made that connection because this is something in the last year of my business. I've really, I'm trying to get to a place of not only helping people with gut health, but also with emotional eating intuitive eating body image
because they aren't mutually exclusive. They do have an impact. I think a lot of times the gut health world is like restrict, restrict, restrict, go on specific diets, be perfect with your nutrition and perfect with this and that can really affect our mental health. And then there's the mental health sphere where sometimes it's like, ok, get rid of any rules.
you know, which I don't, I don't like the word rules anyway, but let's be real. We do have to be intentional in some ways with our nutrition when it comes to gut health. and so it is like a fine line and that's something that I, I currently support my clients with, but I want to continually be more informed on that and how to help people both with emotional eating bo body image and gut health.
I know there has to be a fusion because I too struggled with that for the longest time, I didn't have to care like at all what I ate and I still had body image issues. And then I started to feel really good because I was really restricting foods. And then I realized I was starting to develop some bad rules and like kind of a bad relationship with food.
I was really like, scared of it, right? If something was gonna pop on my plate. And so it's, it's been a continual journey. And I think to just highlight what you said last is this acronym that I just made up to kind of remind myself to be mindful and it's called the Pack of Mindfulness PAC, which stands for presence, awareness and curiosity. And that's how I define mindfulness like in this present moment.
How am I right now? I'm not gonna pair my compare myself to last month, last week or five years ago. I'm not gonna try and think about the future. I'm just gonna try and be present with myself right now. Let me get aware, bring in data from what my body is telling me. What's my mind telling me what emotions am I feeling? And then can I be curious about this rather than judgmental? And so that's, you know what you just exemplified and it isn't always weight loss doesn't always follow gut
health and vice versa. And it just kind of suck because sometimes it can, but sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes like, I feel like I'm getting better and then, you know, you slip up in one area and it's, it's just recognizing, if you can practice mindfulness, you can get to that better balancing point and greater comfort and health, hopefully in mind and body.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And, and thank you for that and listeners if, when you tune into these episodes, it's just a huge call out to you to all of you because that takes guts as we're talking about gut health, you got a gut and you showed up, OK? That was kind of funny.
Trish Whetstone
But like I liked it.
Jenn Junod
It wasn't planned on. It's, it takes courage to listen to this shit. It takes courage to look at yourself and go, oh That's not where I want to be. And that's OK. This is my starting point and my starting point is a lot different than many other people's and, but it's similar to other people's too. I know that I am short and curvy. My partner Tyler is, is tall and just that he's tall, drink water and I love it.
And he's also very, very thin. And I, for the first few years of our relationship was so self conscious about it and not everybody needs to go through brain surgery to like, have this realization. It was actually the fact that I had time off of work that I, I could focus on myself. And that's really when I started really thinking about the way I was treating myself. And this is a journey y'all. I know that I'm talking about where I'm at right now. We're all on different chapters.
Something that I struggle with is something that you may have figured out and something you're struggling with, maybe something I figured out. And that's great because we can all learn from each other. And I just wanna like, drive that in because I want to encourage all of you to, to take it, try it on yourself. Cool if it fits, if it doesn't find something else. And that's all I can say to anybody and how I figure out things that work for me.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah. Oh, I love that. I'm a little speechless. I guess it, it, it, it reminds me, to kind of share one of one of the things that I, I really like to say this, this came to me years ago when I was first going down this journey. is that, you know, this is what I wanted to help myself with and kind of what I'm still on that journey to do so on that journey to do. And what I like to help other people do is feel good in their gut physics.
So less blow, less pain, but also feel good intuitively deep down in your gut about the choices that you're making for yourself and your health. Because if it doesn't feel good, something needs to change and you deserve to feel good physically, but also just like mentally, emotionally, spiritually, intuitively about the things that you're doing for yourself. And I do believe everyone can get to that point.
Jenn Junod
I agree. And thank you and Trish, we're finally getting to this point. We're gonna get to the end of the podcast. I and everyone listening, we're excited about this because we've tried recording this so many times that we never got to the end. any words of wisdom, or first off, anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about.
Trish Whetstone
Gosh, I don't, I mean, I feel like I could talk to you forever. I feel like we could go there. But I honestly think that this was such a fun conversation and I think that, you know, it gave me a lot to marinate on and I hope other people a lot to marinate on. So I won't say anything else at this point. And maybe our conversation could continue one day.
Jenn Junod
I was just about to think that of listeners make sure to DM me or comment on Instagram or email me and let me know what questions you have for Trish because I would love for you to come back on this podcast and let's talk more about, you know, our gut and gut feelings and I think that's something too of your gut feelings and intuition. So love it and any words of wisdom.
Trish Whetstone
Yeah, I mean, I think that you just hit on it. I think the gut is boss and the reason I say that is because yes, it's a powerhouse that affects so much of the rest of our health. So like making that your focal point, if you just want to be healthier overall, you know, mentally, physically, the guy is like boss, it's great. And I think that our gut has a lot of wisdom like you, we all have our own gut, our intuition on what feels good for us and what doesn't.
And I think anyone who probably is listening to that this podcast here has good gut wisdom, good gut instinct around like good conversation and good things to consume. I, I guess my final thought that I always like to share with people is like, ok, you wanna, you wanna like work on your gut health. Ask yourself, what are you digesting? And of course, that means physically, what are you digesting like, you know, food, but also what are you digesting or having trouble digesting in
your life? Like, you know, with relationships with yourself, emotionally, whatever? And start to listen to that like gut wisdom inside you. And that's like a perfect starting point for, for your journey.
Jenn Junod
Hey, and how do people reach out to you?
Trish Whetstone
Yeah. You know, you can visit my website health coaching by trish.com that has a lot of my contact information. I'm most active on Instagram. I'm at feel good. Got girl on Instagram. So just DM me, I'm, I would love to, you know, connect with you, have a conversation, what have you. So probably my, my two best places to get in touch.
Jenn Junod
Yay and last, but not least what is something you're grateful for?
Trish Whetstone
I am grateful for this conversation. I am grateful that you and I connected because I think we have a lot of fun and I get a lot of insight out of every time we chat and think it's super cool. I love the whole vibe. I love shit. That's my favorite words. I love, that's like in your podcast, love that we went there. And I'm grateful because I feel my gut feels happy after chatting with you.
Jenn Junod
So thank you and, and something I'm grateful for is we finally got the full I'm so excited for our audience to really hear it and dig in because this is something that I come up with new questions every single time, every time it goes a totally different direction in the that I'm just excited that we got here and that we get to share more about health. So thank you for joining today, Trish. Thank you.
We appreciate you listening to the episode. Please like follow and share on our social media at shit to talk about. That is shit. The number two talk about stay tuned on Wednesdays and Fridays for new episodes. This episode was made possible by production manager, Tom Nan, business manager, Bill Powell and your host, Jen.
