S1 E26 Shit2TalkAbout Money Management with Ean Price Murphy
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Jenn Junod
Hey, Ian, thank you for joining shit. You don't want to talk about and for our audience, please note that this is Ian with an E I have stared at her name for far too long and go. How do I say her name again? How do I say her name again? And instead of being Ian, it's Ean and very, very simple. So welcome Ian to the show. What shit do you want to talk about? And please introduce yourself.
Ean Price Murphy
I wanna talk about money, shit. And I know it's one of my favorite topics though. and the, there's sort of two introductions, one is who I am and what I do, which is I'm the founder and co owner of a company called Moxie bookkeeping and coaching, which is based out of Brooklyn, New York, even though I am currently living in California again. And then there's the, the longer piece of the introduction about why, why do I want to talk about money stuff?
And that comes from an experience that I had in my personal life in my mid twenties where I really, I thought I had done everything right. I, you know, worked hard. I've got a work permit pretty early in life and worked at least one job sometimes more than that all the way through school. I am an incredibly hard worker. I'm a very frugal person.
I don't overspend on crazy stuff, but because I had never been taught any financial literacy and I don't think most of us have, it's certainly not taught in school. So, unless you've got a, a very specific kind of parents, you may never have learned this stuff. So that I found that even though I was working as hard as I could and saving as much money as I could doing things like living in a four bedroom apartment with seven roommates and all of those crazy things that we do in our
twenties to try to, to save a buck. I found that because I was under earning at these multiple various jobs, you know, if there was a slow tips night or, if I was sick and had to call out or if I had a roommate leave without paying a phone bill. I was getting further and further behind financially and covering that gap with credit cards. So what was going on my credit card were the basics of living, gas groceries, utilities. And that's not what credit cards should be used for.
I now know and where that got me to was this place where I was barely able to, to pay the minimums, which was interest only, which meant at my current rate of, of earnings. It was going to take me the rest of my life to get out of debt. Oh, damn. And you know, that definitely felt like failure to me. It did not align with my work ethic and my values et cetera. But I found myself in a position where the only logical choice was bankruptcy.
Jenn Junod
So how old were you when that happened?
Ean Price Murphy
20 something mid twenties, 20 sixish. Ok. Yeah.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
So at the time where like the rest of my friends were all starting careers, starting families like really finding themselves and I was like drowning a debt, they may or may not relate to that one.
Ean Price Murphy
So the deal that I made with myself was I'm gonna file for bankruptcy, get out from, you know, from these tens of thousands of dollars in debt. But I'm gonna figure out what happened because that was not on purpose. And so I began to learn about money and found out that one of the things that I'm really skillful at is bookkeeping and was able to freelance as a bookkeeper so I could set a living wage for myself.
And that I didn't have all of my employment eggs in one basket because one of my employers who I loved to death, we would all race to the bank to try and cash paychecks before he ran out of money. Oh, damn. Oh, damn. And so one of the things that I found being a bookkeeper was, it wasn't just that one employer. It was so many small businesses. So that even though I'm setting my own rates now, and I'm the one cutting the checks to have the owner sign them.
I'm often still running to the bank to get that check cashed before my client runs out of money. And I just became to see this like very harsh pattern of people sort of winging it for business. You know, they might have a great idea, very successful, tons of income but have no idea how to manage that money. So they were left, you know, running out of cash regularly and the negative effects of that ripple.
So, you know, I began to try to look at, well, how can I do that differently in my business and how can I shift things so that as I grow my own business, I'm not struggling with these same things of, you know, why am I making so much money? But I'm still not taking any home or why am I the one to, you know, skip a paycheck if, if things are a little tight, like what's, what's wrong?
Right. If I'm the one who's putting the most skin in the game, how come I feel like I'm dead last. And, you know, again, thankfully I had some really good things on my side. I'm very practical. Logical. I actually like this stuff. So I can't even imagine how hard it is for people who don't like numbers or money or have a lot of, yeah, negative feelings or trauma or all of that stuff attached to it.
It, it just makes it so hard and of course, the easiest thing to do is just avoid it or you're in. So you're so used to living in financial crisis that you don't really realize how much pain it's actually causing. you know, I think of it like a, like a dull toothache or, or lower back pain that you just kind of like, well, that's just what my back does.
It just hurts all the time without realizing how much better life can be. If you just went and saw a chiropractor and got that put back into place doesn't always work. But you know what I mean? So I, you know, as I was sort of learning how to balance all of that stuff on my own, I came across a book 2015, I wanna say called profit first and this book changed the way that I do business.
And what I mean by that is it, it shifted the way that I think about money because like, all accountants everywhere and every report you've ever looked at financially, it's income minus expenses equals profit. So that system is set up almost for failure, right? Because profits kind of the leftover.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
So it's no wonder that you feel like you're last in line because you are, you are the leftovers before we dig in deeper.
Jenn Junod
And, this might be a, a silly question. only because I know that deal with money and a bookkeeper deals with money and then there's some accountants and,
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
those mean, it's not a silly question at all.
Ean Price Murphy
It's a great question. That's a little bit like saying, what kind of doctor are you? Right. It's not a silly question at all because a doctor could be a dermatologist, an ear, nose throat person or a professor of philosophy. They're all doctors, but they do very different things. So the term finance, an accountant is a really broad term. That's like the term doctor.
So, so a, a bookkeeper is a particular kind of accountant. a tax person usually called an E A, an enrolled agent or a CPA, a certified public accountant. They're a different kind of accountant. And then there's all sorts of other, you know, chief financial officers, CFO S and financial advisors, you know, business and personal. We are legion, right?
And, and that's true for doctors as well. Everybody's got a specialty and, and so as a business owner, it can be quite frustrating to say, you know, my elbow hurts. Can you take a look at this and be met with? Oh, no, that's not my specialty. And you're like, but it's, it's, you're my doctor. You deal with my body, that's my elbow is still on my body.
What do you mean? You don't do elbows and so very much with our businesses, you know, we go to ask a question of our accountant or a bookkeeper and they go, oh, that's not really what I do. And you're like, but you do money. Why you do my money? Why won't you do my money with me? And, and here's kind of why I got so excited about this profit first cash management system is because I know that the limitation that I have as a bookkeeper or what I think of as management accounting, looking
inside internally to make sure that all the things work well versus compliance or tax accounting, which is making sure that whatever you've done translates over to whatever the government agencies need to know about what you've done. Both of those are looking in the past, both of those, say what happened yesterday and do our books reflect that not the real question which every small business owner including myself has, which is ok.
That's cool. But what about today? And more importantly, what about tomorrow? What can I afford? Am I ok? Am I going to be ok or do I need to do something? And so what's messed up about that is that's not traditional accounting, even though it's the thing that every business needs so desperately and, and that's what profit first, the system called profit first around managing your cash really gives you, it gives you this insight into am I going to be ok by planning the road ahead if
you will? So I think of bookkeeping and profit first as beans and rice, they exist separately. Each one on its own is fantastic, but it's really magical when it, when they they're brought together. So the whole system, yeah, please.
Jenn Junod
As a side note for our audience real quick, I do wanna say that yes, Ian is a is more focused towards entrepreneurs and business. A lot of what we talk about today is also for a person, finances even in our intro call, Ian gave me tips as well. So this is definitely something that we all can learn from and there will be some pretty good takeaways. So keep listening even if you're like, but I don't want to start my own business and I get that it's hard.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
It's not for everybody totally.
Ean Price Murphy
And so I mean, and the reason that I talk about it in that context is because I am a business owner. But, but what really sold me on, on this system was, it was the system that I had been using in my personal life to recover from my bankruptcy because I didn't want to pay attention to my personal numbers. And I just wanted to know that I was ok. And, and then I began to f focus on this freelance business that eventually grew into a, a 15 person enterprise that I have today.
Jenn Junod
Nice. Yeah.
Ean Price Murphy
Nice. So, this idea, and it, again, I think it's something that a lot of us sort of naturally gravitate towards and it's not a particularly new system. Right. I mean, Dave Ramsey talks about it. I think Susan Roman talks about it. It's grandma's envelope system. It's, when I've got a chunk of money in when I actually have, you know, cash in hand.
Not what I think I might get tomorrow. I just divide that money up into the different things that I need it for so that I can't overspend. So, you know, I know that I, in my personal life, what I have is, monthly recurring, stable expenses that are the same every month or within a few dollars. So, you know, car insurance, car payment, telephone bill, rent or mortgage, rent or mortgage, that sort of stuff.
Then I've got my monthly recurring but, a different amount every time like groceries. But still, you know, necessary. and then I've got sort of a wants category like, you know, clothing. Yeah, it's a need but it's also kind of a want. And so it just gives me a little bit of flexible room to decide, you know, how much goes in there. And then, I have a fun money account and that's, you know what?
I, I actually check that balance because if it gets too high, I know that I haven't had fun in too long and that COVID balance is, is much higher than it should be. It's been collecting and, and there's actually some really good, again, existing wisdom out there, Elizabeth Warren repeated some numbers that are also very common that ideally you shouldn't be spending more than 50% of your income on personal needs.
Again, that's those stable and variable needs and about 30% for wants and then 20% for long term savings. So in the wants, it would be all of the sort of fun stuff, you know, vacation savings, et cetera, anything you wanna buy, that's just like sort of for fun stuff. And so again, I think what, you know, the profit first system took that same idea of let's work with percentages so that it's always responsive to this variable income that we may have either as freelancers or small
business owners or whatever. And that way it's always responsive. So we can see, you know, is my bank balance staying the same or is it going down because if the bank balance is going down, month after month, not day to day or week to week, but over a month, you know, month by month, then I know I'm not earning enough to fill it up to cover the things that I need to cover. And it gives me an early warning system to say, oh, something's not working.
Jenn Junod
I'm, I'm staring at you because this, this I follow this system and I know that if you were to ask me when I was in my twenties, when I decided that it'd be super fun. I'm saying this very, very sarcastically because I thought I was doing great in my twenties. I definitely wasn't. I racked up a lot of debt for myself that I'm still working to pay off.
And this, I, I personally use your system. my partner and I, all of our standard monthly bills, even like our flexible like groceries, we put it into a joint account. It all gets automatically paid. You know, it's taken us a while to kind of like figure it out, engage it. But, and then I have a separate account which is my play money. I can do whatever I want.
And then for myself, I also have my business account and I'm pretty proud of where I'm at right now. Like if I was in my twenties, I'd be like me understand my finance, you know, yet I know that there is such a mindset of scarcity. There is. I can, it's almost where even thinking about. I didn't know where my next meal would come from. I wanted to keep up with the Joneses of, they're all going out, I'll go out.
I want them to love me. So I'll pay for everything. I just wanna, you know, look cool. So I'm gonna get the same pants they have and there, there's so much emotion type to finances, to money and the dollar bill, or dollar pound pound, single pound or all right, I'm gonna give currency mixed up across, across the oceans and cross country borders. So no matter where the money comes from, there is such an emotional tie to it that it's, it destroys marriages and relationships and it
destroys friendships with lending money. it, it is such a taboo subject. and I wish that I could tell myself where to start back in the day, but I don't even really know where I started. It just kind of was a bunch of small steps and I'm at where I'm at and I'm like, ok, cool. I gotta figure it out that doesn't help anybody else.
Ean Price Murphy
So, I mean, that's the way that any of us figure out anything is just by taking small steps and seeing how it goes. You know, I, and I think there's two, probably more than two kinds of people but the two main things that I sort of know about from mindset work is a lot of people who promote mindset work say, you know, fake it till you make it and use positive affirmations.
And, you know, really create this mindset space for yourself to grow into. And that does not work for me. I don't know, I don't know what it is, but I, I'm the kind of person and I know affirmations are supposed to be believable, et cetera. But I'm the kind of person that is just kind of cranky about all of that. And so, you know, if you want me to be like, oh, I'm so like, I feel so fulfilled now that people are throwing money at me for me doing what I love.
I'm just gonna be like, really though. So I have to, I have to approach it from a way that works for me, which is I have to go for evidence. I have to look for the evidence of seeing it happen and then affirm that when I see it, which is like a, again, a weird flip. So, so instead of, you know, sort of starting my day and, and having affirmations, what I do is I know what is the one thing that I am working on shifting my beliefs around and you know, there's a whole bunch of processes about like,
what do you wanna be able to believe? And do you believe it? And if not, like, can you make it more realistic without diminishing it too much. And so if, what I, if, if, what I can get to is I, I've made it this far. I've made it this far. Right. I definitely have, hasn't always been perfect, but I'm doing ok today. So I must have done something. Right.
And then to be able to, to sit and think and write out where are all of the places in my life that I've either already faced and conquered hard things in general or, or next to find where the places that I've faced, difficult things with money and ha and it went well for me, right? So not the fight with my roommate where they stormed off and didn't pay the phone bill.
But the conversation, I had a friend where I had loaned them a couple of bucks and then like, it would be really helpful for me if you were able to pay this back by the end of this month. And even if they didn't end up doing what I wanted them to do to be able to be like, look how clear I was, look how calm I was, you know, look how much grace and dignity I brought to that conversation. I can do this and to, and to really take a moment to allow yourself to see the evidence of how much shit we already
are really good at dealing with. And so just because we're dealing with a blue fish instead of a red fish still just a fish. We know how to do a fish. We've done fish before. Right. So, so that's how mindset works for me. And I think not a lot of people talk about it in that way.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. I, I can relate in the fact of even, I've talked about it a bit. I took a close to a 40 to 50% pay cut to go be an intern at a video production company. And then come to find out, especially when COVID hit, I ended up doing a job that I should have been paid triple what I was making for as much work as I was doing. And it was crazy to me because I, it wasn't the fact that I, how little I was making it was, I couldn't see that I could get a job that paid me more.
I honestly didn't believe it until I started working with a coach and he helped me really clarify. He's like, all right, write a list of all the things you want out of a new job and what you don't like in this job. And then he helped me change it, which his name is Taylor. So anybody that wants to hit up a career coach, he's phenomenal. Let me know I'll tag him somewhere if to, to go bug him.
And, but he helped me change all of the negatives to a positive So in the fact of I don't want to be lied to the positive would be I want a team that I can trust. And so that II I mentioned this specifically in the fact that I didn't realize that was something that yes, it's a mindset thing, but it really did help in the fact in that I really relate that to you because I can say I don't like that.
I spend so much money on XYZ. And now I go OK, I know that I come from a background where my father would get a bonus and instead of paying the backlogged mortgage for three months, he bought a Nintendo and a new TV. Instead of paying child support, he bought himself a new truck. You know, like that is the mindset that I grew up with of you get money, you've got to spend it.
And it's that patience that you were talking about of going, ok? What are things that I've done that are good? It's also, I really want to acknowledge everyone listening to this and listen that listens to the podcast in general. You're taking a step to acknowledge of, hey, I'm not alone in this other people go through this shit too. This is shit to talk about and life is hard in general.
And one thing that I really to this day, I talked to my mom about this, I'll call my mom randomly and I'll be like adulting is hard I don't want an adult anymore. I thought I really wanted to. Adult, adulting is hard and adulting is so much harder when we don't understand finances and when we're scared of them and avoid them and it takes time like I just wanna drill it down and this is something you, you and I talked about Ian is that it's a step by step process for us to figure it out and
really hone in and I know that I'm just repeating everything you just said, Ian. But I really want the audience to listen of, if you can understand one fish, you can understand another fish. If you can understand how to start training for a marathon, you can figure out finances. I feel like if you can get, you know, out of bed for the day, you can figure out finances.
And I don't mean that for all of our disabled listeners, like, I hope you get the metaphoric version of this, not the phy physical, but it's definitely a very, very difficult process. But once you're there, it does get easier.
Ean Price Murphy
Absolutely. Right. It's a learned skill. I'm proof of that. Yes, I have a natural aptitude for it. So I learned it quickly and decided that I liked it, but I went from knowing nothing to running a bookkeeping firm, you know. So it, it's, it's a lot like learning to drive. Right. If, if you've, if you've learned to drive, you may remember back to that feeling of terror sitting behind the wheel in this giant metal hulk.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And like, if I push the wrong button, maybe me and everyone on the road dies, you know, I don't know, driving manual 100% but I know how to do it.
Jenn Junod
Now, if I don't drive that car for forever, I know how to do it. I'm very happy.
Ean Price Murphy
And so with practice, we lose our fear, we gain confidence and pretty soon we're rolling down the highway with the radio tuned up high, you know, singing along because we don't have to think so carefully about. Wait, where is my turn signal? Wait, is that the windshield wiper? Wait, what, you know, what am I doing here? and you know, and, and it, it's, it's definitely learnable and we've learned things before.
So the, the other piece that I would add to mindset that I also think does not get talked about nearly enough is the idea of safety that, you know, just using your example of having a father who modeled when we get money, we blow it on fun stuff rather than pay the bills. There may or may not be some additional stuff in there of if I pay my bills first, I'm betraying my father. Yeah, or strong word.
Jenn Junod
But yeah. Yeah. Or even, if I pay my bills first, I'm never gonna be able to have fun. Right? Like that is, or if I pay my bills first, I'm not gonna be able to buy my partner this or buy other people stuff because they're not gonna love me. I'm just randomly throwing out examples I've dealt with.
Ean Price Murphy
And so the, the key where it becomes an issue of safety rather than mindset is is that additional little flavor you put in there is if I don't do this, they won't love me. And the feeling of not being part of a community is imprinted in us as danger, right? That's not something that we don't like. That's something that fundamentally challenges our survival skills to not feel loved and taken care of.
And so that's why we have these weird sort of acting out things with money of hoarding or overspending or, or both because there's this deep seated fear in there that it's not safe to not use money to buy love. If I don't do this, people won't love me.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And, and so again, all of the affirmations in the world, if you're not acknowledging that are not going to fundamentally shift because you can say, you know, I'm going to be better about my spending or I'm gonna be intentional about my spending or I'm gonna, but but if it comes to the moment in life where you and a dear friend are at a restaurant and you love her, of course, you're gonna reach for that, you know, check and be like I got it because I
love you and I want you to love me back or there's plenty of times that I've paid for it for family just because I want them to be proud and think I have everything put together.
Jenn Junod
And I honestly used to say, fuck money. I hate it. Go away. And I'm just going to put on this facade that I have everything put together. And at one point and this is totally like, let me drive a car starting to walk, you know, start slow. I through out to one of my friends. I was just like, hey, can, can we just watch a movie at home? And they're like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, and I'm just up front with them, at least for myself, this works for me.
This does not work for everybody. But I'm just like, dude, I don't want to go out and spend money. I got a bottle of wine. It's much cheaper, just crash in my house. We'll just, you know, way cheaper drinking at home than going out or, and, and I do understand that those dynamics really do change when you're single or in a committed relationship as well or if you're an outdoorsy person compared to you really love to dance.
I say that because I really love to dance as well. But clubs are really overwhelming for me, but I'd rather have a dance party at my house. And, but one thing that I learned about myself that was kind of cool and I learned to appreciate. Ok. So it wasn't kind of cool. It's really cool is that I've always loved to thrift. My friends and family have always told me that I dress like an old lady and that sometimes I look like an old lady and that, of course I would love thrifting because I'm an
old lady. It is basically just the synopsis of this and I love it because to our point of, of if I don't do X, they won't love me. If I don't dress like them, they won't love me. I've learned that there are things and this really helped me change my mindset. There are things you invest in and there are things that are, you can go into it knowing that it's gonna be thrown away and then also having something that will be destroyed and need to be replaceable very often compared to something
that's gonna live for 10 years. And that was a huge shift for me. Yep. How did you go through that when you first went through bankruptcy? You said that? Like what, how, what was that point that you were like, oh my God, I have all this credit card debt because I feel like, how long did you realize that you couldn't make those minimums and go from that point?
Ean Price Murphy
It took me a while again because I, I believed work hard and you'll succeed. I believed that and I was working really hard. So it just, my, my mentality did not allow for anything else to exist, you know. so I just had to sort of like, realize that the math doesn't work, but I was not a math person. I still don't like math. thankfully bookkeeping software does all of the math for us.
Otherwise I wouldn't be a bookkeeper, but it was this idea of, you know, because I played the shell game of opening new credit cards to get 0% and transferring everything over and I called and negotiated and like, had my interest rates drop and negotiated my payments like I was on it. And in fact, at one point I paid a, credit consolidation company or something and they were able to do nothing for me because I had already done it all.
Of course, they kept my money. But, you know, that was again, sort of one of those places where I was just like, I just feel like I can't do anything right. You know, I'm going to the pe people who say they're experts, but I already did everything that they're gonna do. And if they had told me that up front, I could have saved that money and put it towards my credit card bill.
So, so I think I just kept thinking, you know, oh, well, next month it'll sort itself out right next month, I'll just pick up another shift and it'll sort itself out. But for every positive, there was always a negative, you know, or I'd pick up so many shifts that I'd make myself sick and then need to take time off and again, you know, working outside of the corporate structure, there was no health insurance, there were no, there were no paid sick days.
you know, so, so it just, it got to the I I just don't think I considered that there was another option until, until I was like, looking at this stack being like, I just, I'm out, I'm literally out of cash. I have no way to pay this. They won't give me another credit card to do my little shuffle with. It's just gotten out of control. So that was it.
Jenn Junod
Hi, it's something, that you mentioned earlier came up while you're telling us about this, that you talked about how you set up your standard finances and you set up. you know, the rest of it can go to a play fund or a fun fund. something that I don't think that we've talked about that. Really? my partner is way better at this than I am is you don't put shit on your credit cards any daily expenses and it's all on your debit card. And I'm like, but wait, there's miles but wait, there's this,
but wait, we need that cash for something. I am the best at excuses and I feel so bad for Tyler because oh, I almost want him to convince me out of myself and he's like, you can be so combative and I'm like, I almost just want you to convince me that. Just trying to explore all the possibilities. Yeah, I'm like, I just, it, it's not to make him the bad guy is, is just, you know, it's just different need to be reminded not to put anything on credit cards.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And can you go a little bit more into like using cash versus, and when I say cash, meaning debit versus credit, I mean, I, I'm kind of in camp miles.
Ean Price Murphy
I love me my free stuff. I bought some good Christmas gifts for people this year on my points. So I feel like I'm unwilling to give that up. The difference is I pay my credit card weekly and I pay it in full. So I'm never carrying a balance anymore. I don't even wait for the full month to go through because I can charge up more than I meant to if I'm not really careful.
And so for me that comes out of ok, you know, because, well, I put groceries on my credit card and my husband and I sha share the same card. So that's the thing is if I pay it weekly, I can be like, whoa, you know, we did a Costco trip this week like let's slow it down a little bit, you know, and, and so that just keeps it fresh in my mind rather than this month's bill for last month spending affects next week's money. It's like, nope, it's all, it's all just happening right now.
It's all happening right now. And if I do charge something larger than I was, really thinking about when I did it, I now have a couple of weeks before the bill is due to, to, again, make sure that it is paid before it's even due. So that's my work around. You know, I'm, I'm not a fan of telling people what to do because we all have our own motivations and we all have our own ways of doing things.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And I am a huge, you're not the boss of me person and, and, and please mention the myth because I'm like staring at them before Ian and I got started.
Jenn Junod
She sent me the five myths of money and I'm just like, oh, these are so good and what you're talking about is it's like right on the ball with number one, right?
Ean Price Murphy
So, you know, so there's this myth that you need a budget and in fact, there's even a, an app called, you need a budget. And what I love about the app, you need a budget is that it makes it so you don't need a budget because it does that same thing. It says, well, what do you think you're gonna spend in each category?
Like estimate what we think you, you need and then if you go over that the app goes. Ok. Well, where's that gonna come from then? And you go, oh, we use that, what you say we use that.
Jenn Junod
We use, you think you need a budget or I don't even remember what it's called.
Ean Price Murphy
Yeah. YN A is, is one. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's, there's a bunch out there pocket card. Zeta money, all sorts of things and more, and more of them are coming tied to their own debit card because that's how they make money is on those, is on those fees. So you really don't need a budget. You know, I think again, that, that's a way that people feel like they're in control of the money, but it's really just numbers on a page when that's not what needs to be
controlled, what needs to be controlled is the real world stuff and even control. You know, I kind of bristle at that word. I don't wanna be controlled. I do wanna be intentional.
Jenn Junod
What's the difference there?
Ean Price Murphy
To me? Intentional is me making my own decision and controlled.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
Feels like a very external decision, like you're being made to make the decision instead of making the choice.
Jenn Junod
Right. Right.
Ean Price Murphy
Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, we've also talked about myth number two, which is, you don't need to be good at math to be good at money calculators exist on your phone. You know, there's all these apps will do it for you. Like you don't need to, you don't have to worry about the math stuff that's all taken care of. There is a little bit of logic involved but nothing that's gonna break your head open.
You know, it's just about what do I wanna know about what my money is doing? Those are the categories I set up, you know, if I don't care about tracking it, I don't have to track it. And that's often my complaint with a lot of the apps and software is it gives you this default chart of accounts and then people try and jam their money into those existing accounts instead of saying I don't have that.
I don't use that. I don't need that. Right. If you don't have a pet, you don't need a category for pet expenses. That one's pretty clear. But, but even for other things, you know, if it doesn't, if it's not called what you would call it, change the name, make it easy on yourself. You're the one that has to understand this, not anybody else. So, you know, you don't have to be good at math.
It doesn't matter if, if you think you're just not good at money stuff we've already talked about. It's a learnable skill. You don't have to be fluent in the language of finance. You just have to know how to order a beer, get to the bathroom and get to the hotel. Right. You can go far with just that.
Jenn Junod
And then Myth number three, you, you aren't good at money.
Ean Price Murphy
Yeah. That's sort of folded in there. Right. Again. It's, it's not just because you haven't been good at money. Historically doesn't mean you can't learn something new. yeah, I mean, our brains are always learning things. Of course, we can learn new stuff, even stuff that we don't like or aren't good at. I'm not asking you to be a, a perfect artist. That doesn't mean you can't draw me a sketch of something, right? I can get the gist. That's all we need is just the gist.
Jenn Junod
I don't know. I, I say that because even my stick figures are questionable. But maybe, maybe with enough drawing and, and for myth number four and five, I do wanna pivot to small businesses and entrepreneurs because I'm, I'm gonna read these ones because I have a follow up question on them. Myth number four is only big companies have this stuff figured out and myth number five is all bookkeepers are the same, which we already covered, covered that one earlier.
But for those that are thinking about it noodling the back of their head launching that t-shirt company or, you know, becoming a coach or, you know, launching a podcast. Where do they start? When do they need a bookkeeper? Why do they need a bookkeeper?
Ean Price Murphy
So as a bookkeeper, my answer is you don't, you don't really need a bookkeeper. And I know that's a funny thing to say, but here's why I'm saying it because a bookkeeper, I mean, in the industry has changed a lot and this is boring to everybody.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
But me, the industry has changed so much with, you know, the online software that's been developed and all of these apps growing, you know, out of nothing and virtual assistants becoming a thing and some of them know some of these Softwares and shout out to Paige our virtual assistant who does social media because she's amazing, but she doesn't do the financial side, but she is amazing.
Jenn Junod
So I had to call that one out.
Ean Price Murphy
Yeah. And, and different virtual assistants do different things, right? You can get an administrative assistant or a marketing assistant or a financial assistant. So if you have someone that does admin, it's not unheard of for them to know how to do data entry into a software like quick books or something. So, is that a bookkeeper? No, but it's someone who does bookkeeping.
I also love it when owners or freelancers learn how to do their own bookkeeping. To me that's learning how to drive the, the stick shift. Right. Yes, it's a little bit more complicated. Yes, there's an easier way to do this. But now that you know that you can, you know how to delegate from a place of empowerment, you know what it takes to get it done.
So, it doesn't just feel like this big weird amorphous, yuck, you know, you're like, yeah, it sucks. I hate doing it. It's not the best use of my time. I'm gonna outsource it. Great, outsource it. So, so bookkeeping has to a large extent, been automated. You know, you can set up rules so that every time you see Zoom come in on your debit or credit card you go with that software, I don't even need anybody to enter that.
The software is gonna enter itself that this, artificial intelligence and, and learning is becoming really sophisticated. So when it is time you'll, you do need a, an accountant, a tax accountant almost immediately because they're the compliance person. They're the ones that are gonna keep you out of trouble. You will know when you need a bookkeeper because you'll say I'm tired of doing this shit.
I don't wanna do this anymore. That's the moment to hire a bookkeeper. And again, how much better of a position will you be? And if you've done it a little bit yourself and then have someone come in and give you some expert guidance on, oh, you know, I think your systems or you could even one of the things we do a lot or most bookkeepers do I imagine is to help people get set up correctly. Right. Let's customize the chart of accounts. Let's show you how to enter in income and expenses and
talk about like different ways that you could do that, look at reports so that you go. Oh, that's not so bad. I can totally do that myself. And it shouldn't take you more than half an hour, hour a week. And I always love to do what I call money dates, which is, let's just make this experience as pleasant as possible. Right. We know we gotta go to the stupid dentist. We might as well go and like, listen to nice music and have nice lighting.
Jenn Junod
You know, I need to make a dentist appointment.
Ean Price Murphy
So, you know, find a time where you're not super stressed out. You can do bookkeeping in front of the TV. That's ok. But if it helps you, if it's, if it's something that requires your concentration, you know, have a good snack first, bring a, bring a beverage set a timer and don't do it for longer than is going to be tolerable. So even if you only do it for 15 or 20 minutes, if you don't finish, that's fine, it'll still be there, you know, and work on building up that tolerance, but make
sure that, you know, you're comfortable, you're cozy that, you know, you've got good music on, you've got good lighting on and, and all the things that sort of counterbalance, the stress of this task called bookkeeping until, you know, like learning a language or riding a bike or driving a car. You're like, that's not so bad. I still don't love it, but I can totally do it.
Jenn Junod
and I agree to that because I didn't learn how to ride a bike until my twenties. I don't love it. I can do it. I love it but I can do it. And, and it's something to add on. And I think something that I found that I had to make a choice and it's, it goes a lot into how you're talking about bookkeepers as well as virtual assistants. Is I, when I was looking for my checking account for the business, there are first off like a gazillion different options out there in the world.
And one thing that was really important to me was to understand is what are the benefits, what are the, the pros and cons of it? And I found with the type of service that I use a con, but they do say up front it does not sync with quick books. You know what? Cool. I know that either have to do it manually may get a va to do it. I don't know. But I know that up front and those are the type of things for businesses when you're going out there and looking at this stuff.
Those are also the type of things that you can consider. where to me, they had some type of bonus happening if you use it. And I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna get to the point where I need a bookkeeper for a while. So that short term bonus is gonna be more beneficial to the business than s thinking with quick bugs.
Ean Price Murphy
Yep. Exactly.
Jenn Junod
And we're getting towards the end of our time and I just wanna double check, Ian, is there anything that you were like, we gotta cover this on this episode that we did not cover so far that you wanted to.
Ean Price Murphy
I mean, I think the, the practical tip that I'm almost always giving out to people who are like, but where do I start? Not just in business, you know, if, if you're starting a small business, go read profit first. And the other book that I would say you should always read is Business Made Simple by Donald Miller. Those two books together are, are kind of cover marketing and back office.
But for personal as well, this idea of, you know, I know I'm supposed to pay myself first but how, when there's so many expenses, how do I do it? And, and what I say is we'll just set aside 1% of your income into a savings account. Just 1% peel it off. Put it aside and then watch it grow most people unless you're in such dire financial straits as I was, can afford to put aside 1% if you can't.
Boy, that's a really good indicator that things are very bad. Red flags are flying like something has to change and do whatever you can to change that. If you can't cut back expenses, like, find a way to go make more money, whether that's going back to school or, you know, whatever it is. so that you can increase your income because after you've cut back expenses to a certain point, you can't cut back any further.
It's impossible. You must increase your income. And again, that was the piece that I think I didn't really know. So if 1% works out cool, maybe you can shift that to 2% or if you do get a pay increase or start getting more money from a new source set, just set all of the new money into the savings account. So you're still living on the same amount, maybe give yourself a little five or 10% bump because yay, but try not to let your expenses rise to meet your new income and just watch that money
grow and then use that to, you know, move towards some personal goal, whether that's finally investing or maxing out your, your retirement savings or taking a vacation or replacing your, you know, your old vehicle or whatever it is, you know, letting money work for you. Because I do believe fundamentally, money is a force for good. Right. Money greatly accelerates our ability to make change in this world. And I think it's well past time that radically kind people get
comfortable with money. So it's, you know, it's a good, it's a good thing to learn how to use this tool for the good that it was intended for. Can it be used for evil? Sure. Soak in a hammer. It's not what it was made for. Right. So let's begin to, to sort of infuse that positive value and positive impact, making back into the money that surrounds our world just because you make it, you don't have to keep it 100%.
Jenn Junod
And that, that really hits home in the fact of when I first when I was in my twenties and I started making more money, I was like, oh, I need to go see a financial advisor and first thing a financial advisor does and they help you invest your money in case anybody listening doesn't know what a financial advisor does. He goes through like my my finances with me and he's like, yeah, you can't invest yet.
He's like, well, technically you can, but you shouldn't. And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, you're so far in debt that you will eventually become bankrupt. And I didn't really know what that meant. I, I honestly didn't know what anything money meant. And it was the type of thing that as you're talking about cutting back expenses and, or go get another job or I was definitely that person that was like, fuck money.
I can't do it. I can't go anywhere and yes, there are circumstances where that is very, very true. We need to be able to help people get through that with. You know, that's why we have, the government does help us out, at least in the US. and there, that, that is something that we will talk about on other episodes and dig in deeper there for people that have the means such as to put away that 1%.
Things that never crossed my mind of things that I could cut back on were getting a smaller place, getting a roommate. I'm an only child. I don't do well with strangers in my bubble. I got, I've gotten roommates. It's not fun for some, some roommates I loved, you know. No, Netflix. Yeah. That one just makes me really sad just thinking about it. But, or sharing Netflix. Yes. Yes.
Ean Price Murphy
Our community, our network is our greatest resource. Again, there's this stupid myth that we should be able to do this all on our own. So stupid. No, no.
Jenn Junod
Ask your friends to do free stuff. There's free zoo days, there's free museum days. There's parks outside, there can be snowball fights. I will say being in Arizona, I feel like that was a bit more limited when it's 100 and 20 degrees outside. A snowball. Yeah. There's not necessarily like you can't bundle up and there may not be pools available only because I lived there for so long. I did find that a bit of a struggle. But there's libraries, right.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And so volunteering rather than seeing it as a struggle, which it is, I don't want to minimize that.
Ean Price Murphy
See it as a challenge. Right. What whack a dole crazy thing. Can my friends and I go do this week? That's low cost that we might not have ever. I mean, Groupon, right? Has introduced us to a whole new world of, I could do what? For five bucks? Ok. You know, and, and that's, I think that's the fun in it is there's so much to be
discovered when you step out of your comfort zone, that's really quite enjoyable or can be, you know, unfortunately, that's not guaranteed but agreed. Creativity abounds.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And another one that adding to just random ideas of Facebook marketplace has random free stuff. So does, you know, like Craigslist and a few other apps and something that has become much more popular is like refurbishing furniture. You can do that for pretty minimal cost. It's something to do. I thoroughly enjoy it because I go into like my Zen mode when I'm doing it and, but it's like finding out what you can do that is not just going out and spending a lot
of money. And so for all of our listeners, I am very, very curious if you could put it in Ian's audiogram when we post it on Instagram and Twitter and everywhere. What is something that you do that to cut costs because I'm very curious what everybody else does and, and question for you, what is something, some words of wisdom that people could really use right now?
Ean Price Murphy
I mean, I think it's, it's repeating things I've already said. Please do not try to do this on your own because it's just not fun. Right. Find, find people who are in the same space as you that are willing to be on this adventure with. You do some learning together, whether they're friends or strangers. You know, there's, there's no need to try to figure this stuff out on your own.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
And keep at it because you've done hard stuff before 100%.
Jenn Junod
And also like, I know that we're gonna have questions on this. So we might have Ian back to answer a random question. How do in the meantime, how do people reach out to you?
Ean Price Murphy
The easiest way is just go find me on my website, which is Moxie bookkeeping.com.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
There's Moxie just to make sure Xie and bookkeeping is bookkeeping, bookkeeping two Os two K's two es I don't know why I went back to booking like that.
Jenn Junod
I'm, you know, I'm glad you spelled it out. And what is something that you're grateful for?
Ean Price Murphy
Oh, everything. I, I feel like I keep my sanity by remembering every morning, at least five things I'm grateful for. And I, I mean, we we adopted a dog two years ago from the shelter. He's adorable and he's just the light of my life. I just, I'm so grateful for him. I love dog.
Ean Price Murphy, Jenn Junod
Dogs are the best, the best, yay.
Jenn Junod
And for myself, I will say I am grateful for, as you guys can tell, I am very sniffly that I haven't gotten into a sneezing fit because I almost did a few minutes ago. So, as you guys have heard, I'm always very sneezy on many of these episode recordings. That is just my life. So I am grateful I made it through our episode without sneezing. Well, thank you, Ian. We appreciate you till next time.
We appreciate you listening to the episode. Please like follow and share on our social media at shit to talk about. That is shit. The number two talk about stay tuned on Wednesdays and Fridays for new episodes. This episode was made possible by production manager, Tom Nan, business manager, Bill Powell and your host, Jack.
