S1 E16 Shit2TalkAbout Parenting A LGBTQIA+ Child with Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Transcript was AI generated, if there are mistakes, please let me know! Thank you in advance! Jenn Junod
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Jenn Junod
Hey, Sarah. Thank you for joining. Shit. You don't want to talk about, please introduce yourself and what shit you want to talk about today.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So my name is Sarah Kennedy. Thanks for having me today. I'm a coach for parents of LGBT Qi A plus youth. And I'm also the parent of a transgender child and the shit I don't want to talk about, but we need to talk about is what it's like to be a parent of an LGBT Qi A plus parent. And some of the struggles we go through that people often will tell us we shouldn't.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, like I remember in our intro call, we dug into a lot of that and I am excited for this episode because I had a gazillion questions back then, but that was probably about three months ago, maybe four. So I don't remember all the answers so now I can react them. How, so what did you do before you became a coach before your child? talked about or decided to come out? How do you say that properly?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
They decided to talk before my child.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So I'm an occupational therapist by trade and I became a coach for parents of neuro divergent kids knowing that eventually this was what I was going to do, but I needed to wait for permission from my child. Because part of what I do is be very transparent about my own experience and I needed him to be OK with that.
So there is a great intersection of neuro diversity and gender diversity. And so I naturally was attracting individuals within the niche I wanted to work in anyway. So it just kind of fell into place as he was ready.
Jenn Junod
OK. Before we dive into that, what is like I get what neurodiversity is? I couldn't put a definition on it. Could you explain to, to me and the audience what neurodiversity is?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Anybody who thinks differently than anybody else? I think almost everybody falls on a neuro diverse spectrum. So it used to be that was a catch all phrase for people on the autism spectrum. But there's so much more diversity in our brains than the, than just the spectrum. So I was looking at brains who think differently, who are wired differently, who do things in an what we consider an unusual way.
For example, I, I write things down just in conversation because it helps me stay on track. and I have a very neuro diverse brain and so do my Children. So a lot of parents struggle with kids who maybe it may be adhd, it may be just giftedness. It may be all different things that come to play where the child is just thinking and doing things in a different way.
Jenn Junod
I I love that explanation. I am, I myself am neurodivergent and I am a DH D I have dyslexia. You know, it's not just mental illnesses because I have anxiety and bipolar type two as well. It's, it's something that, you know, people that at least from what I've seen and heard conversations around is that mental illnesses and neuro divergency are the same and I'm not sure the actual definition on this. So this is not a clinical thing, but in my mind, I've separated the two because it's
like I have, you know, anxiety and bipolar type two which yeah, I guess they do make me neurodivergent because I react differently. But when I hear neurodivergent, it's more like, I don't know, like the A DH D thing, the dyslexia do they? Are they the same type of stuff or is it? So people that come out in the LGBT Q plus community. Are they considered neurodivergent? Cause they're not society's idea like, how can we dive in a bit more about that?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yeah. So I don't know the answer to your question about mental illness per se versus different diagnoses. I just know that I consider anybody who thinks different neurodivergent if anybody that's outside of the norm out of the box. But gender itself is not within neurodiversity, it just often intersects. I think it's gender diversity we're seeing. And while gender is a mental construct, I think those are two different things they just happen to intersect quite often.
Jenn Junod
I I'm Googling it. I grab my phone to Google because I, I, I'm curious about this. and there's a few, I'll take a screenshot and upload it to your episode so people can see my sources. neurodiversity refers to variation in human brain regarding sociability, learning, attention, mood and other mental functions in a non pathological sense. It was co coined in 1998 by s sociologist Judy Singer who helped popularize the concept along with the journalist Harvey Bloom.
So the next one says neurodivergent refers to an individual who has a less typical cognitive variation such as autism, A DH D dyslexia, dyspraxia, et cetera. Neurotypical refers to individuals of a ty typical development and intellectual cognitive functioning.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
So it didn't quite answer my answer my question but I think it makes sure that we get what the Google says the official answer is and I think as it becomes more, more visible, like people are talking more and more about it and talking about it in a quote unquote normal way.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I think we find out more and more of us are neuro diverse and didn't even know it. And the same with our Children as they evolve beyond what was neurotypical, you know, we just have a new word for it.
Jenn Junod
I like that. I like that because it, it, and this is a whole another conversation that we can go into. So thank you for touching base on that and how you so that way we at least get an understanding of how you went from occupational therapy to your coaching that you have now. And just as a, I'm not gonna go on a down spiral on this. What is occupational therapy?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Oh I it's working with anybody from birth to death on anything you do every day is occupation, whether it be bathing, dressing, playing function, function of your hands, function of your arms, those kind of things. So an occupational therapist works to normalize all your daily functions.
Jenn Junod
Very cool. OK. I just wanted everybody to have a level playing field because I know like I get these concepts conceptually, but I'm like, I don't, I don't remember the last time I actually asked someone what it was. So that being said, what you're so how would I'm gonna say this? Probably wrong and I'm excited that you're a coach in this area because you can correct me.
How did your, what I say your daughter come out because you now have a transgender son or how, how would somebody ask about that? Is it proper to even ask when it is someone transgender or somebody has a family member that's transgender? Like, how did that all come about?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It's perfectly ok to ask and people will often be very avoidant, but you always would refer to my child as my son, even as an infant. We go back and correct that. That was my son. oh, he was just correct, incorrectly identified and you know, my, it's kind of like my mistake. Huh?
Jenn Junod
Didn't know I'm noodling on that one because that's, that's so cool. Like it's, it really does change the construct that society has come up with for gender when you go back in time and be like, nah, it was, it's my son. It's always been my son.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yep. And what's really fun is a lot of parents will go and buy a baby's first Christmas ornaments and go back and fix them all. So they, they have them corrected and this time of year you see a lot of it. I'm like, that's fabulous y'all. Yeah. So you would always ask about my son and use the pronouns that he would choose and it, it is
perfectly ok to ask what someone's pronouns are and how they identify because my son did identify as non binary. So you wouldn't know necessarily what his pronouns were.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
OK, going into asking lots of definitions today, what is non binary, non binary means, doesn't identify as male or female necessarily.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So my son identifies as what they call transgender, masculine. So he's more, he identifies more masculine than feminine, but he doesn't identify necessarily with either. So he considers himself gender fluid able to float in or out. And so that takes there's a whole spectrum of that as well.
So somebody may be transgender, feminine, transgender, masculine or they may be completely in between and fluid between or they may be, don't identify as a gender that we identify with it all.
Jenn Junod
OK, I'm wrapping my head around this.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So we have this third gender of non binary that anybody can fit into and be whatever they want.
Jenn Junod
OK, I'm gonna play the like I don't know enough about this. So, and if I come across as you know, rude or please please correct me on that. I, I asked because I don't want to put this intellectual burden on people that don't want to answer these questions. So OK, so if I think what I'm having a hard time like mentally just wrapping my head around because I, I have found myself going cool. You are who you are. You know, like let's celebrate who you are. What I'm having a hard time is the lot
like the logic, the line going from A to B right now and where I'm struggling with that is if, if someone is transgender, masculine, we're gonna go, I'm working on following my train of thought and they're non-binary. Would, how does that still make someone transgender? Right? You know, if they have feminine and masculine, I guess my question would be, and this is could be very, very ignorant. Couldn't they be non binary and not transgender?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
I think is a great question.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So some non binary individuals do not identify as transgender, but typically that anyone non-binary is considered transgender and the reason is gender is assigned at birth by what genitals you got. So that's your assigned sex and then trans is just Latin for a cross. So if you're anything other than what they assigned you, then we call you transgender.
So the other term you would use for that if you've heard is Cisgender and Cisgender means same. So somebody who is Cisgender, I was born female, I was assigned female at birth and I am female. So I am Cisgender. My son was assigned female at birth, but he's non binary. He's transgender across the gender. He was assigned.
Jenn Junod
OK. And I think that's thank you for answering that. I think another part I'm stuck on is if you're non binary, then you, he's your son now. So that's also something I think I'm a little stuck on because how did, how would son fit into? and he, instead of they them, he chose it. OK.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
That's simple. It's that simple. Somebody chose their pronouns and their, their title. Some people want to go by my child or my offspring or I've seen some fantastic words, used people call things all sorts of things. And so they get to choose my son initially wanted to be known as my child. They then that was kind of a transition. So we used the they them pronouns which for all those parents out there and this is the shit we don't wanna talk about that is stinking hard because we are
trained in our brains to love black and white thinking it's just such, it's how our brains work. It's easier. And then when we get this, what we've been taught as a plural, it's hard and our kids are really hard on us. Some of them about, come on. Can't you get it right? Because there's so much more what we would call neuroplastic or so much more easily changed. You know, it's like kids can learn a foreign language so much easier than adults because their brains are so much more fluid.
The same thing goes with pronouns and they don't get why we're so stuck, but it is stinking hard to get, and so we went through from she, her pronouns, they, them from, they, them to he him because that's where he identified. Now, other people that may not be where they go.
Jenn Junod
Right. Right. And I appreciate breaking it down a little bit. And the fact of I, I think using not your son necessarily, but the his journey will go with that as an example to like break it down. So hopefully, this helps others understand it because I feel like a big reason why people are so ignorant about it or so against it is they
don't understand it. And I think that is a hard thing to start comprehending if it's not something you identify with or have someone close to you that identifies that way.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It was that hard for when I had a child. And that's the thing that we don't talk about enough is that it is hard and when it's your child and you have to figure it out quickly and respectfully, it is twice as hard. And a lot of the support groups out there will say just get over and accept your child and be loving and move on. And it's like, wow, it doesn't quite work like that. The brain does not just jump from one to other just because you accept them. Doesn't mean it's easy.
Jenn Junod
Can you dive in a bit more about that? Like, what were the feelings it is there? And I know this is a case by case basis that you can kind of, I've heard that parents can kind of see it coming or that it's totally like out of the blue or, and I've also heard it where family members are like this is just a phase. So how, how did that conversation happen with you? And how do, is there a trend that you see or is it all individual basis? And how do we like that conversation comes up?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
What do you do? So, let me make notes. I break those down. What do you do? So, is it a, a phase? That's a common one? Are they in a phase? Nine times out of 10? No, they might be in transition of different letters upon the LGBT qi a spectrum because they know something different but they don't know what it is. So it's common that I'll see someone say my child came out as gay first, then they came out as this, then they came out as that, then they came out as this.
It must be a phase. It's like, no, they just didn't have the right words for it yet. And that was our journey too. With that. My son tried out different words until he found the one that fit. So I generally don't think it's a phase. Somebody is who they say they are and that can be hard. But it's the fact of the matter that any individual knows themselves best.
is there a common trend in how it happens? There's really not. people will tell me it came out of the blue but I promise it never came out of the blue. Our Children do a lot of research before they're willing to come to us because it's scary and they don't know what's gonna happen. And I tend to see a trend of Children have been kind of researching for anywhere from six months to two years before they come to the parent.
It's a long time. So what seems like out of the blue to us was never out of the blue. I've never seen a case yet. That was out of the blue that they just decided this one day and decided to tell a parent. They're always, there's so much out there now, even on Tik Tok that our kids can watch and learn and understand. So they're, they can identify with somebody first and then they come and hey, I think something's going on here.
And one thing that we forget is that it's a privilege once the child does that because they were really brave to tell us because it's not societal norm. And it's scary because people are not accepting and we don't know what's going to happen. The child doesn't know what's going to happen in the family. They don't know what's going to happen in their real life. It's not an easy path.
Jenn Junod
100%. And II, I know at least when I've been around people that have been very, close minded about this. I'm like, why do you care? It's like if, as long as they're not hurting other individuals, you know, and, or animals or doing harm to anyone, what does it matter?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I'm very curious the answer to that from people too. As why does it matter so much to you? And I often will get, well, I want my Children to be safe. What about my son? Is it safe? Because if you look, they'll, they'll say, well, bathroom safety, I don't know about you, but I don't see transgender individuals having any bathroom safety issues in the news. I haven't had any issues with any parents, Children. Ever. They're just scared to go to the bathroom. So I want to pay the safety.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
I'm, I'm looking for, I think it's, they want safety in their brain and when we're talking about bathroom safety just to break that down a little bit.
Jenn Junod
That's where, that's when, you know, somebody that's transgender has to choose between two gender bathrooms. And especially if I say it this way because I guess we putting myself in their shoes, which I never could do. But like, you know, in my imagination, it would be harder as a, if you're not looking the parts or you're a transgender male if you haven't and it doesn't, ok, it doesn't make you any less transgender male if you haven't changed your genitalia.
And I think that's something that has come up a lot and I have a favorite tiktok person. Unfortunately, I never pay attention to names, but I will find him and post it in the description that he talks about that of how it doesn't make him any less male or anything like that. But I would be, if I were in their shoes, I'd be scared of going to the men's bathroom because I can't use a urinal that, that I, I laugh because I'm like, it makes me like, that's what I'm afraid of.
And I laugh in like that awkward. I'm not in this phase. So it's not like a laugh of like, disrespect is a laugh of a, I'm really uncomfortable even talking about this. Right.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
The first time my son told me he used the, the men's room at the high school. I had the exact same response. I laughed and was like, how did it go and began to laugh because I was so uncomfortable. I was like, I'm not laughing at you and I'm really inside just kind of bubbling out my pride that you were brave enough to finally take that step. And, and so I think that comes out that way. Yeah. And so they call it like, there's a social transition and there's a physical transition and just
because someone transitions socially doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to change any part of themselves and, you know, whether they choose to change, you know, take hormones or cut hair or, I mean, there are all sorts of spectrums of what people can and can't do. It. Makes the bathroom situation very challenging. Depending on how much con, you know, contrast someone has to their gender.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And I, I guess in my mind and I just want to call this out why I don't imagine. And it could be because I am cyst female that I am. I imagine the transgender women having a bit of an easier time because they're stalls so it's hidden, but that doesn't mean that it's any less scary.
So I do want to call that out because I did focus on the other side of the spectrum. And it's scary no matter what. So I really love that we talked about bathroom safety and just, that's something that I feel like people don't even think about.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
but is, is mind your own business.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
That's what I would tell people. Just mind your own business and let somebody go to the bathroom so that they can have peace and use the bathroom. One of my client's sons held it at school to the point that he got continuous UTS at school because he was bullied for going to the bathroom. And if people had minded their business and let just let the kid go to the bathroom and this was in both bathrooms got bullied. In the boys' bathroom and got bullied, bullied in the girl's bathroom.
So then there was no bathroom options and a child shouldn't have to then go, they say, well, go use the nurses station. You know, that's not always like in our school there's multiple floors. A child shouldn't have to do that. An adult shouldn't have to do that anybody. So, just kind of mind your own business and let people know that they're, they're just trying to go to the bathroom.
Jenn Junod
Yeah.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
And we don't know anybody's business.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna know that business. I mean, there we do, we will be having a, a nutritional coach that literally talks about shit. so, I mean, we'll get there but not like necessarily something I like to talk about now getting back on, on the original track of, we talked about, like is there, an average or how that
normally comes out like, or, and as you said, parents can feel blindsided even though their Children are doing lots and lots of research. Is there an average age that you've seen?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
No. it commonly, we see a lot of Children with the transition of puberty where things become, they become dysphoric in their body, which means their body doesn't fit and they're not understanding what's going on. That is a very common time, but we are seeing more younger Children and it used to be much older because people were afraid in school and now that we're learning to be a little more protective kids are tending to come out in earlier and earlier.
Jenn Junod
And how when, a child or even an adult comes out specifically to those close to them, to parents. I'm curious because, I have, you know, access to you of how you react, if you're willing to share, but then how do you coach parents to react?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So I did not react. Well, first I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me. And I I was raised Catholic and very conservatively in that realm. And I didn't, I think there was a big part of me that was afraid for my child and didn't want anything to do with this. So I didn't react well and I did say, you know, I love you no matter what. But I'm not sure what's going on and I didn't react well and I didn't ask questions.
and I also remember the day going back to what we were talking about being non binary. My son came up to me as non binary and it was months before I realized that meant transgender. And I walked in his room after reading it and I walked in and I said, oh my gosh, are you transgender? And he began busted out laughing. He was like, yes mom. And it was like, oh, I get it OK, oh OK, because the non binary thing was so confusing to me.
Now, when parents come and say, how do I, how do I handle it? I start with, I love you. I love you for who you are and asking questions because we think, oh, we shouldn't ask them because we don't want to put them on the spot. We should ask questions because we need to know and every kid is different, you know, and how are you feeling about that? How can I help you? How can I support you? What's the best course right now, do you want to, is this something you wanna transition with?
Because there's a lot of questions that we have and what it means for some kids, it means something totally or adults means something totally different. You know, I wanna stay exactly as I am and just be called something different. Some people, it means I wanna have surgery and I wanna have hormones and I want everything to change. So we've got to start asking those questions in small phases and small, small bite size processes.
Jenn Junod
I'm thinking back to an episode that we did late, late November, early December, with Darcy talking about intersectionality and Darcy identifies as they then. And I'm asking in the fact that I, I think a lot of people when, as you mentioned, they keep their original bodies, they don't want to go through hormones, they don't wanna go through and change anything about their bodies, yet they want to be identified as they, them.
Because at least the way if I remember correctly, the way Darcy explained it is they experience both feminine and masculine. So they want to be identified as they, then I feel like that's another one that's kind of hard to conceptualize like, cool, I'm gonna accept them for whoever they are.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
But that's also something that, you know, if I try to go A to B and I only imagine this is something else other people get stuck on is how, why, how is that considered transgender when it's almost like they're taking gender away because they're becoming, they, then I think the person gets to decide but under, under just the definition as it is, they just put that as transgender
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
and people are what they, what they say.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and even in their episode, I, you know, got, I've known Darcy for about six months and Darcy came out as they, them only about a month ago, a month before the episode and I had to correct myself from calling them. She and I'm gonna say she didn't correct me like that. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is something I need to call myself on because you identify as they, them, I need to call you. They, them not what I'm used to.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
And when we do that making mistakes are so easy. I'm, one of the things I tell people is don't make a, a production of it, just repeat what you said with the correct pronoun in it and keep moving. Shows, respect, shows acknowledgment, keep moving.
Jenn Junod
Yeah, I really like that. Now, when you talked about that as a parent, you, you struggled when your son came out how when parents are coming to you or, you know, individuals that need to support at that point, they've normally, they've, I don't know if, normally, if that word just kind of came out. but they probably have had their that coming out conversation with their child. How do you coach them afterwards?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
Like what are, what would you say are things that people can do to support their Children so that people will come to me because they're struggling to know what to do next.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
And it's very individual where they are in the, in the process, what questions they want to ask. So we work on what is it you want, what is it you're wanting to know, what is it you're wanting to go with? And where do you need? Support? A lot of times people are in a grieving process and we are told as parents that we shouldn't grieve because our child is still alive and we still have a healthy child and we shouldn't grieve.
And that's another one on the support groups that people are really snippy with other parents about like, why are you grieving? Well, we have to, and that's where people are. I, we have to identify where they are in that process because we're, we're almost dealing with the death of an idea of this person that we created in our head. And we've got to recreate our own thoughts and our own experience of this person.
It doesn't mean we're grieving the actual person, but we're grieving all these ideas and beliefs we had about this person and that's completely natural and normal, but often we need support doing it. So it doesn't come out in weird ways with the child.
Jenn Junod
Something you mentioned in our intro call and I've mentioned this on a few podcasts now of how and this just really struck a chord. I'm not a parent but I, I do this with my friends. I do this, you know, when you have a new job, a new relationship, a new, like really anything new. But you described it as when you have a child, you start to daydream about all the possibilities they have as a future and those possibilities are the gender that they're born with. So part of the grieving
process that you told me about was breaking that down because a lot of times what parents struggle with is not the actual change. It's that idea of, oh my little girl's gonna get married and be so beautiful in that dress and we're gonna have a giant wedding and now it's that ok. My son is going to get married and be, look amazing in a tux and, and then it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's, that's one of those. Like, I feel awkward. So I'm gonna laugh.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yeah, there's a lot, like, for example, my son's now a senior in high school and the mental construct I had from the time I found out my ultrasound it's a girl is, oh, there's gonna be the prom dress, right? And there's going to be the preparation for college and talking about female roommates and then they're gonna be decorating the rooms together and all those things just this year alone and on my mental construct has to change to, that's not the way it's gonna be and that's not who
my child is and things come up every year and every phase along the way because we do, we fantasize from the time they tell us and you know, we have these gender reveal parties, we fantasize from that moment forward, what this child is going to be when in fact, we were the ones that were wrong.
Jenn Junod
And what would you say to new parents that just found out that they're pregnant and want to support whatever gender that they show like that they are that they show up as because I think this is something that I, and again, I'm not a parent but I have a hard time figuring this out in my, in my own head of supporting. Like if I had a little girl, I hands down will dress her up like a princess all the time.
Just like hands down as long as I can, I will probably put her in Tuss. but then, you know, if that child decides a mom, I hate those Tuss. I'd never want to see a tutu again in my life. And because they could want to be a tomboy, they could want to be, you know, you know, want to be male, they could, you know, but so those are possibilities and I think it's easy to go.
Ok, I'll accept you for who you are. But then I have a problem like where I'm stuck is also supporting that if it's a little girl that a little girl just wants to grow up and be a princess now and how to be open to all of them and have those conversations from a young age that it's ok to be who to discover who they want to be.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Right. So I tell parents to follow the child's lead. I definitely see I had, this is interesting. I, when I had my Children, I had a non binary kind of sense of things anyway, from working in pediatrics. so I introduced that I didn't dress my first in much pink. and I did everything in green. but I tell parents I'm like, there's nothing wrong with the Tutus and princesses just follow their lead, right?
And so make sure that you're, you're introducing them to both sides. It used to be in target that the Lego aisle was labeled boys toys and it actually said that on there and there was Legos and then the next aisle was girls toys and there were Barbies and of course, there were, that was stereotypical and until we learn differently, you know, we had to.
But if we wanna raise our Children to be well rounded, we need to introduce them to everything. Anything knowing that it doesn't make them into anything. And one of the things you said is that they would want to be male. One of the things we know about transgender individuals is that they don't want to be anything. We just are right. So they just are male and it's not that your child wants to be male, it's that they are male. And so we just followed their lead. I know that when my son was
little, he adored Bob the builder and another mom came up to me and was like, why does your daughter so into Bob the Builder? And why would you dress them like that? And it was like, because my kid likes Bob the builder and dump trucks. I don't know why do you choose that? And, but he also liked Tus an awful lot in his time. So I think we just follow their lead that, you know, you go through the phases of Thomas the train and whatever else. Paw patrol. Yeah, we just, yeah.
Jenn Junod
And that's something that I'm also looking back at my own childhood of my dad always wanted me to dress as a boy. He would get me boy toys. He would like, I would want like a doll and he would bring me a rattlesnake tails, like the rattles of a rattlesnake. And, and like, he would want me to work on cars and he would want me to, you know, like work in the shop kind of stuff.
like woodworking and I'm like, I didn't realize that I could be girly and wear lipstick or do my hair or wear dresses until I was in my twenties. Oh, interesting, because he always wanted me to be a boy. And so it's, it's totally a different perspective and I share that because I, I feel like, having that, like that conversa like not having these conversations to a child and giving them the opportunities and the options and following their lead, as you said, like, I wish I could have
stayed in dance. I love dance. I have two left feet. By the way, I'm the worst dancer ever, but I freaking love to dance. And instead, you know, I, my parents got me into other things that were more manly and my mom just followed my dad's lead which you know that happens a lot. So I'm, I'm just like if, if I could go back to like my childhood, you know, I would have been probably a lot
earlier, way younger than my twenties. And I can only imagine how not having supportive parents in discovering that as your child is growing older can be so hard for that child.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yeah. And one point about your story is that people will think that you can make someone male or make someone female no matter what you were introduced to. You are who you are and you will be who you are, which tends to be now girly girl and that there's nothing wrong with that, you know. And so people think that, oh well, it's because your son was given Bob the builder or dump trucks. No, they are who they are. We're just getting the privilege of learning who they are now.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And I just want to say Legos are not just for boys because I really love Legos and the old school before connect Tinker toys, they were wooden. I don't know if you know to our audience, if anybody had Tinker toys, they are amazing. My grandparents have them.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yes, they still sell them. Yes, they do because I love woodworking.
Jenn Junod
Oh, because I love working. My grandpa was in woodworking. Don't want to touch a car with a 5 ft pole. But I've learned and, and I mentioned this because I've learned that there are male and female sides of myself. There's interests that I have and I mentioned this because even though I am cis woman and I am heterosexual does not mean that I cannot accept those that are different than me.
And it does not mean that I can't have friends that are different than me, that we can't ask questions because they're different because I personally don't identify as them 100% like I will not know what they're going through, right?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I think it makes it more important that we have those friends because how are we going to know anybody else's experience in the world if we don't? One of the things I tell parents, I'm like, reach out in your community, make some trans friends get to know people.
So, you know, these are just human beings having a human experience so that there isn't this mystique of who someone is, right? And so I think it's more important as us as individuals that we have friends on all spectrums, cuz how are we gonna know otherwise?
Jenn Junod
100%? And I, I what a law that stigma, you gotta break that stigma and be an ally and support them for the beauty that they are just whoever they're showing up as, and I always say the caveat as, as long as they're not harming anyone or anything because, you know, I don't, I don't want any like embracing Hitlers in the world you know, maybe he needed a little more love and acceptance.
He didn't need all the blonde people in the world like, you know, like let's be loving and true. Now can you talk me through just a house, I'm a parent. Well, in this scenario, I'm a parent and my child just came out and I go, what the fuck do I do? Because I have all these ideas of who they were gonna be and I'm worried about their safety, not just bathroom safety, but are they gonna be beat up?
Are people gonna come after them? Like and I go OK, cool. Like I can't ask my child all of this and I'm freaking out. Where do you, where would I start getting that support? Where do, where do I start? Instead of like freezing where I am? Because just the idea of that I'm going oh fuck.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yeah. So we need to find a counselor or a coach who is trained in what we would call, you know, queer knowledge, whatever and gender knowledge there are, it's usually you can Google it in your town. I mean, I live in small town America and I can find it on Google on my own of somebody to support or they can look me up and send an email and I say people I will always
answer you and always find help you find resources because and if, if you're in a big city. There are always gender clinics and they can refer out locally. and find the most.
Jenn Junod
What's the clinic?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yeah. So, I live in, in more rural Virginia and so closest to me would be in University of Virginia in Charlottesville. There's a gender clinic. So they work with individuals on, hormone surgeries, those kind of things, they perform them there. And so I could call them and say, hey, I'm in this city and I need a counselor.
Do you have any recommendations? And I, they'll give you a list. They're wonderful. And even searching coach LGBT Qi A just searching those things and asking somebody for support because we need as parents, somebody to talk to for sure and to learn how to create safety.
Jenn Junod
And, and one thing that we, we've talked about it in a previous episode with Patrick was the term safety versus secure and I just mentioned this because as parents and we're talking about Children, it might not be the same. But if you have friends and family that are adults safety may actually trigger them, It's, it's definitely making them a secure place because you don't know what they've gone through and when safe people weren't safe.
So just as food for thought for, you know, the the loved ones of older ages. and that's really cool about the gender clinics. I now, now I want to look one up in Denver and go say hi and see how they're doing.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
You have great ones in Denver. I think you have two if I remember correctly.
Jenn Junod
But don't I look about them by and say hi.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
There's wonderful resources and most towns now have diversity centers as well. They call them different things. But, and they are always have resources and there are online support groups for parents, for the kids that they can meet on Zoom. There are amazing resources. It's one of the best things that came out of COVID is that these things went online. And because I belong to a, a parent support group in Michigan, because I happen to really love this group of parents.
And I never would have found them if COVID hadn't happened. I just happened upon them and I was like, this is, these are my people and I belong to my local one too. But for some reason, I just really connect there and I tell people there are wonderful resources online and they meet like three times a week.
Jenn Junod
And I remember years ago, I volunteered when I lived in Phoenix at the LGBT Q plus center and just just from going back then. And I would think that the Gene gender centers also are probably very similar in the fact that they have resources for those going through it as well. And it's definitely something where you can get your S TT SD STD testing. Wow, I cannot talk today.
There's books, there's, you know, so many different resources and I'll definitely link some in, in the show notes and on the website of some that Sarah and of course, linking out to Sarah's website. What, what is something that we haven't talked about that is really important in this conversation that I haven't thought of because I'm not in it.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It's really important to take everything with a grain of salt when you get into these groups. Because everybody's experience is different and it's OK to experience the negative side of it, it's OK to say, I'm scared, I'm sad. I'm struggling because people will tell you no, be more accepting, be more loving. It has nothing to do with acceptance and love and, and it's really important to know that that's just, it's ok, it's ok to experience all of it.
Jenn Junod
That sounds much easier said than done, right?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It is much easier said than done. And it is a process. This is not something we expect to happen overnight.
Jenn Junod
Could you give us an example of what it feels like to sit in that sphere or, you know, work through processing that. I the part that comes to mind is that fear of their safety, not just bathroom safety, but again, like just what comes to mind is how the Trevor project started? And just like, how does the parent like it just sounds, I feel like we're conceptually talking about a lot of this, but to dig in a little deeper, how do we start with that? Processing?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
That's where we need a professional because we have to, we have to at least first get it out. I'll give you an example a little bit even deeper than these. My son was self harming and I found out he had been cutting himself and that fear as parents is terrifying that our child is hurting themselves and that we had a hand in it and we weren't helping them and we were making it worse. And it's terrifying honestly, it's terrifying when, because there's physical harm involved and that's
when we need a professional. It is not something that we deal with on our own. And I say the same thing for, if you have fear for safety and security, don't deal with it on your own. This is when we need an extra person involved, we need to talk to our professionals and we need to create a plan.
Jenn Junod
I know for many, many people talking to a professional, there's a lot of pride that goes around not talking to a professional. There's a lot of, in my instance, I have an amazing therapist now who talks all the shit we talk about like she helps me deal with everything, but I've had like over 20 horrible therapists. And so what would you say to parents, you know, wanting to get a professional and not knowing where to start because it can also be very overwhelming looking.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
The Googles can be overwhelming is I guess the best thing I could say, I tell people interview them and if they won't let you interview them, no, that's what I did.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I went through and I was like, if you're not willing to let, to tell me your philosophy or, you know, how you can help me or talk me through just a little bit. We're not a fit because I need to, I need to know that I'm in a safe space too. And I think that's one of the things that, people really appreciate when they come to me is that I've been there, I've done this, I've lived it and I can candidly tell you this is what happened and this is what didn't happen and
this is what's happened for other people and this is how other people have dealt with it and it's different than what you're saying. But you can try this or you can try that.
Jenn Junod
I love that. I love that. That is something that I think that's the best way to say it is interview them and it doesn't have to be the, the same question for each of them. I know that, something that I do in therapy is on almost every therapist. But the one I have right now I'm the amazing at deflecting and getting to know my therapist better than my, they, they know me. Like, I'm like, top notch. That is a skill. And it's one of the first things that I told my therapist my now therapist and
she's like, I'm glad that you admitted that and you're not gonna go shit. I love that. My therapist cusses as well. Like she is one of the coolest people in the world. She has like tattoos everywhere. She's actually younger than me. And I'm just like, you have so much life knowledge still and holistically in the whole human that, that's what fit for me. But it was that first introduction that made me go, I dig your vibe. I like it.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It, it meshes with me and, and somebody that's willing to say, you know, this is above my head. But let me help you find a resource because I also want somebody that's going to say, yeah, I don't know. Let me help you find the answer to that.
Jenn Junod
And that's something that my therapist has done because we really wanna go, we've looked into going to family therapy because my father in law is a recovering addict and moved in with us this year. And that's hard. And it's something that we wanted to work through together. And I asked her if I could bring them in and she's like, that's not my cup of tea. But let me see if I can find someone that is. And it's something that I say that as in the LGBT Q plus community, as much as like if I could
go to therapy and be like, yo, I'm awesome at this. I love this community. I'm not gonna have those experiences and I think that's a huge difference in the fact that I, I can only imagine how difficult and brave it is to come out. Yeah. And now I know your own experiences are with your son. Do you also coach through coming out in different ways?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I have worked with individuals as they've come out just because they, they, like you said, they vibed with me and they wanted to work with me. and their own transition. It is not generally who I work with but I have just because we just clicked and got, got where we needed to go.
Jenn Junod
And do you help parents that are their Children come out in different ways? Yes. OK. Is it different when their son says that they're gay or you know, their daughter says, she's a lesbian is coming out that differently than if they're transgender? Yes, there's a lot more that goes into it but is the love and acceptance and conversations different.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It depends on what the parents thoughts are, what they're, I tend to find that transparent of transgender Children have a lot more depth to their struggle. just because they have to deal with like that fantasy thinking of, of, of who their child is, was and going to be versus a gay lesbian, bisexual child.
But some parents based on upbringing and whatever have so much, so many challenges with it that they go through the same thing. And I, I tell people I'm like, there's nothing to invalidate your experience. This is, this is you and this is ok.
Jenn Junod
What do you wish? Someone told you at the beginning of your journey?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I wish somebody had told me my child was going to be ok. I, I was terrified. we have a non accepting parrot. We have, you know, a very conservative community and I was really scared for him and I wish somebody had said, you know, the child's going to leave here and you're gonna set them up and you're gonna do just fine and everything's gonna be ok. It's just how long a bumpy road.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. How long did it take you to believe that after he came out?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Oh, quite a while. it was probably a good 69 months before I believed we were gonna be ok on this, this road. It might have been even longer.
Jenn Junod
I, I could only imagine that those who come out may tell their friends before they tell their parents. have you had to deal with? and I can only imagine, children's experience and it sounds kind of weird in my head. Like I'm almost 34. So anybody under the age of 18, I'm like, they're definitely Children. Like, but if you told me I was a child when I was 14, I would be livid.
So, it's, it's like this is a, you know, in my head, this is kind of difficult but when your Children tell their friends and then they come out to parents, how they deal with it at school and how as parents do they help their Children through this because for your example of the bathroom story or you know, Children being bullied going to both or either not just bathroom stuff, but it could be a and this is one of the the the tiktok person I keep talking about that I don't know their handle
that I love because it was, this is also something that I get stuck on. He was previously a very, very girly girl. And how, how does that look for a lot of Children in their, in their society?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It all depends on the community, right? And the school and whatnot. But this is where we use the guidance counselor too. And a lot of schools like ours have a gender plan and you just go through and contact the school counselor and ask for their help because they very rarely have not been through it before as a school as a school. Yeah, it's very rare that they have not been before and sometimes parents have no idea because they've done it so well.
Jenn Junod
Oh, ok. Is there, b out what, in your experience? And I know this is, I'm asking for the US. It's gonna be different worldwide and it could also be state to state of laws. Or have you seen anything that's been really against transgender?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Oh, there's all sorts of stuff going on on the national scene. for trans rights, trans health care, state to state trans bathrooms, children's rights. Some states won't allow people to change their gender marker without surgery. It's, it's, it's general, it generally goes state by state as to what's going on and as, as these cases come up.
Jenn Junod
Ok. And I have my own experiences with Planned Parenthood and how, which I mean, this is something that I mentioned in my bio, I've actually had to have two abortions in my life. The first one was by kind of by choice. The second one wasn't by choice. So I've been to Planned Parenthood and I've seen the picketers and the rioters outside of it. Now, for those who want to go to like the gender center, does that show up there as well?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Oh, yes. And we happen to use Planned Parenthood for our Gender Clinic locally and we've experienced it there.
Jenn Junod
So Planned Parenthood is actually something that can be used as a gender clinic too.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
That, that is correct. They do hormones and all they, they do all of my son's care.
Jenn Junod
That is so cool. Now this might be a state by state question but I am going off of memory. I have no idea where I got this information. I just consumed it at some point that it's not a good idea to. Ok, if you have, if a child decides that they want to, that they are, I don't say I want, I think it's like I want, like they choose like it's like a, I, it's not like they're trying on an outfit.
You know, it's just the vocabulary that comes out. when a, when a child comes out, if it is prepuberty, they can do, puberty blockers until they get old enough to make that decision. I don't know if it's a, make that decision or they have to just, they by law, I have to wait till an age. is that something that's state by state? Is that by law that they have to wait by an, for an age?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It is state by state and certain in certain states it's parental. you have to have both parents in certain states. It's one parent, certain states, it's 18, certain states at 16. Some states have no regulation whatsoever or they have a certain amount of time in Virginia. We have, you had to wait a certain amount of time and have a letter from a therapist that you had seen for, I think it was six months, before you made any hormone decisions.
Jenn Junod
Ok. And now from what I understand is that if you do the, like the hormone blockers be like before you hit puberty to which from my understanding that delays puberty. so that way when a child is old enough or I'm just gonna call them a human because I feel really weird that I keep calling them Children, especially puberty ages.
So if the human decides that they're blocking their hormones and, before they do hormone replacement and does, is that something that, from your knowledge that has to be done before, if they want to do the, the surgery with the, processes, it usually is done beforehand.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
But it doesn't have to be, like for, someone who is wanting top surgery that's female to male, they don't have to be on testosterone to have that done.
Jenn Junod
I'm processing this because I feel like I don't know about enough about anatomy to be like, so the boobs aren't going to grow back.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
All right. No, no. So that's usually done. Yeah. Yeah. So that's usually done, you know, late teenage years on. But, I know in Virginia you can do it at 16
Jenn Junod
and for those of you that, are listening to the podcast not watching, there's a lot of pauses with me to like processing this. And I'm so grateful Sarah for you at letting me ask all of these. Like, I feel like they're rudimentary questions yet. I feel like it's hard, it's a hard concept to understand because it's not something that's so accepted for parents, for society for.
And I know that there are II I learned this early on of intellectual burden and I mentioned this earlier. What intellectual burden is is when you go to someone and they are your kind of like your token LGBT Q plus person, your token black person, your token Asian person, and you expect them to answer all of your questions of their heritage, of their experience as a whole and something that I had to learn early on is that I had a podcast, it's called Greater Than it's still out.
If you guys want to check it out on like Apple itunes and stuff. But in one of those episodes, I learned about intellectual burden, but also what I thought was reverse racism. That's not a thing. It's just, you know, I have privilege and I had no idea what it was like to be discriminated against. But that taught me that not all people want to share this knowledge, they're having a hard enough time dealing with this shit, you know, like, not all black people want to tell about their
entire history and, you know, relive it all in their experiences nor should they Yeah. Nor should they exactly 100% nor should because there are s that systemic racism that we can find people that want to share their knowledge and want to dive in and that's their purpose. Again, the same thing with the LGBT Q plus community.
Just because you have a gay friend doesn't mean you get to go ask them all these questions just because you have a trans friend doesn't mean that they're going to want to talk about all this shit. They have enough to deal with.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
Everybody has enough to deal with and I think they'll be coming because of the, I was just about to say yes, thank you.
Jenn Junod
Yeah. And on this, on this podcast, we'll have people that have gone through these experiences themselves. Like we'll have trans people, we'll have people that are in, in a part of the LGBT Q plus community. We'll have people that wants to talk about racism and disabilities and men's mental health because they want to talk about it so we can learn about it without putting the intellectual burden on people, not ready
to talk about it themselves or nor should they ever have to talk about it because it is not their job to educate everybody else. There's a Google, I get, it's overwhelming.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It's why I can't keep my email public. It's because I tell people if you have these questions and they seem inappropriate, they probably are. But I'm that person you can ask. And if I don't know the answer, I have people that are willing to answer it. And so I will find you that answer and not disclose them.
Jenn Junod
I appreciate that so much because on that curiosity, like also taboo question of when and I've seen this on this tiktok person that I keep talking about when people ask him what he looked like before, what was his name before? What, what, what caused him to change? Like could you go into maybe like share with us what questions you see a lot of that are taboo and why they are taboo?
Like I think that's a hard part because I think as humans, we get curious about it. So we want to know but I think that what we struggle with is we don't understand why that can be harmful, asking these questions.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
So we don't want to put somebody back in their, what we call dead name or dead self. That's really the reason. So we don't ask somebody what their name was, what they looked like, what they, what, what parts they have. We don't ask people how they have sex. I don't know about you but I don't really want to be asked about my vagina or how I have sex or any of those questions people will ask questions of,
of people like that. Yeah. Like, huh? Are they planning to have surgery? None of your business? You know. Yes. Stay off of who people were and stay with people who they are.
Jenn Junod
Are we allowed to ask, do they want Children?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
Oh, that's an interesting question because that is, is in and that's fair.
Jenn Junod
I, I feel like it is something. Yeah. Like I feel like that one is hard because, I'm gonna go, let's say even both ways if it's transgender male, like, how does that work?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I don't know. There's a question you wouldn't ask Google for that.
Jenn Junod
There's, you know, we may someday have people on the podcast that have that experience and want to talk about it, especially vice versa. Transgender woman. but asking if they want to have Children, I feel like that's fair game. You know, I ask a new friend if they want to have Children because I'm someone who in 2022 I'm gonna end up having a hysterectomy because of body issues that I have and medical issues I have.
And I like hearing that my friends wanna have kids. I like the, I've had to learn how to have little Rugrats around. That's what I call them. They feel like I'm, I'm anti Jen. I will always be auntie Jen until like another 10 years and then my partner and I are planning on adopting.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
But it's, it's something that I just wanted to call that one out that it's, there's a difference in the question that you're asking if you wouldn't ask it if somebody, you wouldn't ask it.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
You know. So, and we don't ask about, like I said, who somebody was just who they are. It, we, we just don't go there.
Jenn Junod
I wanna sit it without for a second. Yeah. We don't ask who somebody was only ask about who they are. And I think that's a, that's just like a human concept in general, but specifically with transgender because who they are and who they want to be is where they're heading in their life.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
And that I'll be having those conversations about where we're heading in life, right?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
And so there's plenty to talk about.
Jenn Junod
Yes. And, and, and just in the fact that you wouldn't want to ask somebody about the trauma that they went through when it's like, like I've been raped. People don't go around asking me, oh, what was it like when you got raped, what was the situation? Do? Tell me more? I mean, people don't ask me that. So why ask somebody that writes is transgender about that? Because that is a traumatic experience. It's a beautiful experience, but it is hard.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yes, agreed. And I'm grateful for you having these conversations so that people know.
Jenn Junod
Yes, thank you. I'm the one that will awkwardly ask these questions and, and to the to those of you listening and watching if you have these questions, send them to me too of whatever you want. like, you know, tweet it to me. If OK with it being public, it's shit. The number two talk about like that's all of my handles on everything, tiktok, Instagram, all of them or email me.
It's Jen at shit talk about.com because that's what this platform is for is if you have a curiosity question that is inappropriate. Let's see if we can have a conversation around it with people that are open to talking about it because I feel like that's sometimes what we need to use to be able to connect from A to B like you guys probably heard there were multiple times on this episode that I'm like, cool.
I like to accept people but I don't get it, which I think that's what, yes, it may be good intent when we ask just not the right audience. Right. Right. Is there anything that we missed today that you were planning that you want to talk about?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy, Jenn Junod
I think we've, we've hit the highlights, yay. Any words of wisdom that you would like to leave our audience with just it's OK to experience the gamut as the parent.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
It's OK and I will tell you that your child is going to be ok. It is a process and it's ok to go through it however you're meant to. But there's a beautiful community out there and if you need to connect, I'd love to and I'd love to support you in any way, just seek out others and we're gonna get through this.
Jenn Junod
And what's how do people reach out to you?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I'm Sarah Sarah at Sarah Kennedy coaching.com or they can find me at www dot Sarah Kennedy coaching.com and hit contact and arrange a time. And I always tell people just reach out a conversation is free. It's, it's a beautiful time and allows we can grow so much in just a little bit of time.
Jenn Junod
Thank you. Thank you. And what is something that you're grateful for?
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
I am grateful that we are having this conversation in this world and that people are willing to say, I don't know, but we're gonna get there.
Jenn Junod
We are, we are and, and we're definitely changing this as Sh!t You Don't Want to Talk About and, and rethinking it for two Shit2TalkAbout and I appreciate that and, and something I am grateful for is Sarah had to reschedule on me and it's totally OK. I was like, you know, life happens. That's, it's what happens. And I didn't she had something come up and she did reach out. I just didn't get her message and I was so bummed because I've been looking forward to like this conversation
like, since our, like she commented and we connected and our intro call and I'm just so grateful that we had this conversation cause this, this is a shitty conversation like this is hard and it also like helps with my curiosity because I truly think humans have these questions because they're curious, it may not be appropriate to ask. But you know, let's let's ask people that are open to sharing instead of putting that burden on those closest to us.
Sarah Beimler Kennedy
Yes. Well, thank you for having me.
Jenn Junod
You are so welcome. Thank you, Sarah.
Jenn Junod
We appreciate you listening to the episode. Please like follow and share on our social media at Shit2TalkAbout. That is shit. The number two talk about stay tuned on Wednesdays and Fridays for new episodes. This episode was made possible by production manager, Tom Nan, business manager, Bill Powell and your host, Jen.
